Jazz Attack (mtf_jazzattack-v1c.wad) v1c Released! (3/9/08)

What should I do next?

  • Make more match maps!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Make some circuit maps!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Make some CTF maps!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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@SRB2 Guy:

Only thing I can think of is that you aren't allowing scripts to run. The SOC fixes require scripts to be allowed to run, otherwise you will get instantly C-kicked, like you described. Is there anything specific to the crash such as the crash occurring on adding the file, or starting the level?

@SonicMaster:

SonicMaster said:
Frozen River Zone, 1/10

The distance between bases in Frozen River is about 18000 fracunits. This is good. The width, however, is about 6000 fracunits. This is bad. Compress the map's N-S dimensions in half, please. That will please me. Having the map so wide overwhelmed me, not to mention it made it too empty.

The previous version (1a) of this map was heavily bashed due to it being too short and too narrow. I may have gone overboard on its resize. If anything, I need to fill that wide open space with something, or just truncate a bit of the empty middle out.

SonicMaster said:
I remember the inescapable trap, the water current. Still there, I see. That was, and still is, SO lame. How about just a death pit rather than a 5 second pause before your death? It wouldn't be called Frozen River anymore, but I guess that's a price you'd have to pay if you want to improve this.

No longer inescapable. That was fixed for 1c. Look for the ledges after you are tossed over the waterfall. I figured the best way to balance the hazard was to make the escape possible, but still a bit difficult.

Overall, I am unsure how this map deserves such a low score from you, but I'll see what I can do about all that empty space. I do agree that it is quite a problem.

SonicMaster said:
Fire Eye Zone, NA/10
Apparently, Hyperknux has informed me that you made this map bigger. >_< The v1b version was already too big. It's now 18000 fracunits wide at most. That...just no. Have you seen the official levels in SRB2DB? Have you noticed that they're smaller?

Map did not change size for the new version. This one actually needs even more work to fix up all the clip-distance problems, which I think are causing more than a bit of netgame instability.

This map obviously needs a revamp for the next version, as do most of my CTF maps. Still trying to decide how I'm going to go about doing that.

SonicMaster said:
Asteroid Belt Zone, 3/10
Again, this is basically EXACTLY the same as the original.

Ah. Finally. Better level dimensions! The gimmick, however, is what ruined the stage. It made you stick to the bottom of the asteroid for 3 to 5 seconds if you were on the bottom of it, making you virtually immobile. Landing into a topless ceiling was lame, especially because I rose to my death so slowly. I realize the whole topless ceiling was so you didn't get stuck, but inserting that didn't stop the stage from being unfun.

I'm not sure why you dislike the gimmick so much. Most of the point of the asteroids is to use their gravity to slingshot you around the map. Preventing yourself from hitting the topless ceiling is quite simple: move your player over an asteroid, and you'll be pulled down toward it.

I realize that the concept isn't easy to master, but I'm sure you can find it elegant if given the chance.

SonicMaster said:
v1b Sonic at the Disco, 2/10
This seems to be pretty much the same in v1c, anyway. This actually has good sector layout. But what killed it was the gimmick. Every time I played this, the entire netgame just crowds around the music buttons. And the random monitor made that area more interesting, making the rest of the stage pretty much unused.

Yeah, that seems to be a problem depending on who you are playing with. It seems to me that the higher the average skill in the netgame, the more spread out the fight is around the map. The main reason why the room is relatively devoid of items was because of the beta tests where the match occurred exactly as you described.

You have any suggestions offhand how to relieve this other than simply removing the buttons?

SonicMaster said:
v1b Deathmatch Arena, 7/10
I see that you had changed this map in v1c, so I will only rate the v1b one. If it turns out to be better in v1c, I'll let you know.

This map was fun. It was very big, but it was still good. The theme-changing gimmick was very creative and was executed properly. It's visually appealing to the point of where this could actually be copied, edited, and changed into a NiGHTS map, and it would still be good. Only problem with doing that is the fact that everyone's already seen the visuals of this map. =/

The whole choose-your-own-weapon thing is great. I stink at Rail Rings, so Automatic me up!

Glad to see you like at least one of these maps. NiGHTS isn't the most appealing of game modes to me, and I'm unsure how this map could translate into it, but I appreciate the compliment all the same.

Overall, it seems to me from yours and other's perspectives that my CTF map rotation is far weaker than my match rotation. My CTF maps will be the focus of future work on this mod, details as they come.

Thanks for your time, SonicMaster.
 
Jazz said:
@SRB2 Guy:

Only thing I can think of is that you aren't allowing scripts to run. The SOC fixes require scripts to be allowed to run, otherwise you will get instantly C-kicked, like you described. Is there anything specific to the crash such as the crash occurring on adding the file, or starting the level?

As soon as I start the level, I get C-Kicked, and THEN it loads KILLSOC.

Edit: IRC, it works now. Thanks Jazz.
 
As far as Sonic at the Disco, you might just want to spread out the buttons. That would make it unrealistic, yes, but then the music-lovers would have an incentive to run around the map and shoot while they're at it. Alternatively, I just a few minutes ago thought of this: make multiple DJ rooms. OK, it might get you to beg for more music... I could make some, but I'm not sure I'd be motivated enough... Perhaps the latter choice would make the stage actually more interesting.

And as far as the secret you added to Deathmatch Arena... I've actually been quite ignorant of Internet phenomena. I first heard about AYB in 2005, a little late, huh? I just barely learned truly what this one is. Basically, I think I know what that song's original meaning is, and...I'm one of those people who actually think the whole phenomenon is lame. I hope that I am able to add a personal music WAD to change that in a netgame without SRB2 saying "you can't join a netgame." Plus, it'd help to have a different secret for v2, right?

Oh, I forgot to say this, but I noticed that you had made a different music choice for Physics Lab. I...cannot comprehend why you chose the one you did. Tunes 96 is quite an awesome choice.

Teach me how to slingshot in Asteroid Belt, plzkthxbai.
 
Spreading the music around can be a practical fix. However, as you said, some degree of realism will need to be taken into account. I'll do my best to strike a balance.

As far as the Deathmatch Arena secret goes, it stemmed from an inside joke among two of my beta testers. Obviously you will not understand the reference because you weren't around when the inside joke started. If you need further explanation, feel free to PM me.

Physics Lab's theme is the ending music from Portal, which inspired the map. I have no intention of changing the stage's music, as it is a direct homage to one of the best puzzle games ever created.

*EDIT* Changed my mind. Seems that nobody around here appreciates Portal music on a "Portalesque map." Music reverted back to contest selection.

As far as the slingshot goes, you'll have to catch me for a netgame sometime. I'll be glad to instruct you.
 
I think the Disco Ball should have it's own sprites or at least 1 sprite so that it looks more like a disco ball and less like a rotating block. I could even make them.
 
Nitro, as much as I appreciate the offer, I'd rather stick with a sector-based disco ball.

Also on an unrelated note, due to a recent executive decision, all secrets and easter eggs are being removed from Jazz Attack for the next version. These secrets should be secret, and they obviously are not, as they were all discovered within a day of the version's release.

As much as I'd like to keep them, secrets that aren't secrets, aren't secrets, and that fails.
 
Yay, no Jazz Attack rickrolls ever again! And Jazz, I don't really care if it's Portal music you put for Physics Lab Zone, it just sounds so lame. The Zero Ring choice, IMHO, was SO much better.
 
I cannot guarantee there won't be another Rick Roll in Jazz Attack. However, when or if it makes a reappearance, you won't be able to find it in DoomBuilder or XWE and it will therefore actually be a secret, unlike all the bloated "secrets" in this version.
 
The disco ball looks like it's made of Legos, but, okay. At least now I have a cool avatar idea. Also, yay for new secrets. Although you might expect some secret ideas to flood from annoying posts of doom.
 
I think you misunderstood.

Unless this becomes part of an EXE mod, there will be no more secrets.
 
My reviews

Match stages.

Physics Lab. 9/10

Wow, this is awesome Jazz. Nice job there, I liked the gimmicks, and the level design. It's one of my favourite match stages so far, but the thing that knocked it form a 10 to a 9 was the music. In my opinion, it does not suit the level.

Crystal Caves 8/10

Big improvement from previous releases. I like the ice texture which does suit the level, and it's size is great for playing big multiplayer games on. However, I think some paths near the rail rings in one part should be bigger a bit since I think it's a tad cramped, but other from that, good.

The Great forest 7/10

Not too bad, but there were a few flaws.

.The level lags a bit in some areas even if you are on your own. You might want to remove some parts, or make the stage a tad smaller.

.add more scenery in the stage. The stage kind off lacks in scenery.

.The MM4 texture doesn't seem to fit as a forest texture for the level. You might want to try using ECVINE texture to make it more like a forest. Other from that, nice map.

Dark Town 8/10

Not much changed here from the last release except the little hotel-like areas. Pretty good.

Railsniper Range 6/10

Not bad, but not the best map I've played. There are a few things as to why.

.Most of the stage lacks a lot in scenery. Add some in the stage to make it look better.

.You water doesn't have any colormap tags on, unless you've set it like that.

Deathmatch Arena 10/10

This so far is my favourite match map. I loved how you changed the environment in the middle part of the stage, and there's a lot to look out for in this stage. I hope it's kept like it is now :).

Sonic at the Disco 10/10

Another awesome stage. I just couldn't stop listening to that S3&K boss remix. The level's great fun to play in. Nice work :).

Island Hop 7/10

Not bad although some islands I think need to be a little bigger. Other from that, no big issues.

Lava Lake 8/10

Pretty good, no big issues, but the only one I can say is it lacks in scenery like Railsniper range. Add some scenery, and it'd look pretty nice.

Goo Lagoon 8/10

Goo lagoon was great fun. The only big issue for this stage is near the rails, it slightly lags until you come out of the area. Other from that good.

CTF maps.

Woods of war 6.5/10

This map was okish, but some of it looks kinda like a Vertical forest spin off with some extra things added in. Plus it was too short, and lacks in challenge. Add a challenge in or something. I like the forest theme like design though. Add some scenery too to make it more nicer.

Sky Shrine 7/10

A bit small, but it is fun in some ways. Other from that, not bad.

Crazy Castles 9/10

Probally one of the most challenging CTF matches I've played in a while. The gimmicks were well made, and is great when playing in big groups of 6 - 8 people.

Railsniper Rampage 7/10

Better than sky shrine, but a few things that need to be improved on is scenery, and remove the red springs in the water. It makes it way too easy to get to the flags. Other from that, good map.

Frozen River 8/10

I liked this, but there were a few things I spotted, and think of the map.

The current is too strong. Reduce the power of the current a bit. Also when you fall down the current (if you're lucky to survive) there's 2 small sectors with no escape route for Sonic players unless you are Tails or Knuckles players. Make a escape route for them. Also it was a bit bland in some bits. But other from that, the map was good.

Lava lake 7/10

Quite good map. I liked some of the gimmicks on here, but you need a few escape routes out of the lava especially in the inside areas of the map. Other from that, good.

Silica Temple 8/10

Nice map. This is wasn't too bad, although I think this would be way better as a match map. Good map.

Sunken Sanctury 9/10

My favourite CTF map so far. Except the few issues.

You need a few quicker escape routes such as the blue springs. With not the high amout of water, you can't get up the sector, and the player reaches a dead end, and can not go any further until the water is at the right height. Change the spring or something at least.

It also lags near the team bases sometimes especially near the red area. Great map though.

These are my reviews. Hope they helped :P.
 
Hyperknux said:
there's 2 small sectors with no escape route for Sonic players unless you are Tails or Knuckles players. Make a escape route for them.
There is a way out for Sonic. Ever heard of spindashing?
 
Yes, I know how to use it, press the button =/ (sarcasm)

But Where abouts? I'll find out soon enough.
 
Hyperknux said:
Physics Lab. 9/10

Wow, this is awesome Jazz. Nice job there, I liked the gimmicks, and the level design. It's one of my favourite match stages so far, but the thing that knocked it form a 10 to a 9 was the music. In my opinion, it does not suit the level.

Yeah, the music is being reverted to Zero Ring's music. Portal's music wasn't as well accepted as I thought it would be. Otherwise, I'm glad you like the map.

Hyperknux said:
Crystal Caves 8/10

Big improvement from previous releases. I like the ice texture which does suit the level, and it's size is great for playing big multiplayer games on. However, I think some paths near the rail rings in one part should be bigger a bit since I think it's a tad cramped, but other from that, good.

The ice crystal texture is courtesy of JEV3. As far as crampedness of Rail Ring spawns are concerned, they still need ironing out. The spawns in the house are a bit too close to the brazier, while the entrances to the cave Rail spawns are too small. Both are added to my list.

Hyperknux said:
The Great forest 7/10

Not too bad, but there were a few flaws.

.The level lags a bit in some areas even if you are on your own. You might want to remove some parts, or make the stage a tad smaller.

.add more scenery in the stage. The stage kind off lacks in scenery.

.The MM4 texture doesn't seem to fit as a forest texture for the level. You might want to try using ECVINE texture to make it more like a forest. Other from that, nice map.

If your computer lags on this stage, I cannot imagine how laggy the new Goo Lagoon must be for you. =/

Do you mind telling me the general specs of your computer and the render mode you use? I may have a computer close to those specs that I can test maps on to make sure I'm not making maps too graphically intensive.

Hyperknux said:
Railsniper Range 6/10

Not bad, but not the best map I've played. There are a few things as to why.

.Most of the stage lacks a lot in scenery. Add some in the stage to make it look better.

.You water doesn't have any colormap tags on, unless you've set it like that.

The very first and unreleased version of Railsniper Range had all kinds of scenery. I never got back to adding it back in when I resized the map. I'll go ahead and get that on my list.

It seems that I made a mistake when I made the colormap control sector. I put the colormap hexidecimal number on the middle texture spot, instead of the upper texture slot. Good eye for catching that.

Hyperknux said:
Deathmatch Arena 10/10

This so far is my favourite match map. I loved how you changed the environment in the middle part of the stage, and there's a lot to look out for in this stage. I hope it's kept like it is now :).

Only balance and optimization changes for this map if anything. You need not worry about major changes on this map for awhile.

Hyperknux said:
Island Hop 7/10

Not bad although some islands I think need to be a little bigger. Other from that, no big issues.

Still figuring out whether I want to move all the islands closer together, or make them bigger. I also have Mystic Realm's palm trees that I keep meaning to add to the map. I'll put that on the list.

Hyperknux said:
Lava Lake 8/10

Pretty good, no big issues, but the only one I can say is it lacks in scenery like Railsniper range. Add some scenery, and it'd look pretty nice.

I have no ideas on sector or thing-based scenery on this at the moment. I'll add it in if I get any good ideas.

Hyperknux said:
Woods of war 6.5/10

This map was okish, but some of it looks kinda like a Vertical forest spin off with some extra things added in. Plus it was too short, and lacks in challenge. Add a challenge in or something. I like the forest theme like design though. Add some scenery too to make it more nicer.

Going to replace this with a map based off Great Forest's theme. I really don't see much potential in its current form.

Hyperknux said:
Crazy Castles 9/10

Probally one of the most challenging CTF matches I've played in a while. The gimmicks were well made, and is great when playing in big groups of 6 - 8 people.

Also seems to be one of the few CTF maps that encourages teamwork.

Hyperknux said:
Railsniper Rampage 7/10

Better than sky shrine, but a few things that need to be improved on is scenery, and remove the red springs in the water. It makes it way too easy to get to the flags. Other from that, good map.

Yeah, the springs need to be nerfed, despite how relatively easy it is to snipe opponents who try to use it. Then again, heavy lag or a small game size can make the feature way too powerful. Will replace with yellow springs.

Hyperknux said:
Frozen River 8/10

The current is too strong. Reduce the power of the current a bit. Also when you fall down the current (if you're lucky to survive) there's 2 small sectors with no escape route for Sonic players unless you are Tails or Knuckles players. Make a escape route for them. Also it was a bit bland in some bits. But other from that, the map was good.

As I believe SonicMaster mentioned, map width and empty space are indeed flaws. I'll either fill the space with something, or get rid of the space entirely.

As far as Sonic player escapes, Vash's post has your answer.

Hyperknux said:
Sunken Sanctury 9/10

My favourite CTF map so far. Except the few issues.

You need a few quicker escape routes such as the blue springs. With not the high amount of water, you can't get up the sector, and the player reaches a dead end, and can not go any further until the water is at the right height. Change the spring or something at least.

Thinking that sector based steps will be needed. Adding a stronger spring will make them overpowered while the water level is up.

Unfortunately, this map hasn't gotten its fair share of testing at this point. It is going to need a bit more gameplay testing before a solution can be reached.

Hyperknux said:
These are my reviews. Hope they helped :P.

They were indeed helpful.

Hyperknux, thanks for your time.
 
Crazy Castles was one CTF Jazz Attack map that I really did like.

v1b Crazy Castles, 7/10
The map uses a rather cool drawbridge gimmick that does indeed play well. The sector layout is great; and the alternate paths have some risk associated (it takes effort to get to it), nice! The fact that the drawbridges can crush other players is a bonus, because that's funny! The level's the right width and has about the shortest length you can get without hurting the level's gameplay. However, the flag got stuck in the slime sometimes. I checked in v1c, and thanks for fixing it in v1c!

With the new, fixed Crazy Castles, I'll probably rate it like a 9/10 or something once I play it. Even with unbalanced teams and lag simultaneously, Crazy Castles is still enjoyable. Way better than Dual Fortress Zone.

Reason why I rated Deathmatch Arena a 7/10 rather than a 10/10 is because it honestly is hard to find other people in.


Jazz, the reason why Great Forest lags is because the more linedefs involved in the in-game sectors to which FOFs are tagged to, the laggier it gets. Even with merging sectors, that doesn't help. Even I'll Begin's Emerald Valley Zone, which had two FOFs at the beginning, lagged because the sectors they were applied to had like 60 or so linedefs each.

RERATING FROZEN RIVER:

Frozen River, 5/10

Well, this map is "absolutely average." Even though one could get out, the current is still highly annoying, not to mention this question: Isn't it supposed to be a FROZEN river? That's what the title says. Landing on the bobbing bridge pieces will still drag me in the raging current. That's highly unrealistic and still lame.

The alternate paths closest to the bases are not very good. They look more like doorways. I can see the alternate pathway in the map editor, and though I haven't gone there, it looks far too short. I've seen alternate paths stretch like 12000 fracunits.

I do like the idea of the crumbling bridge, and it has...OK sector layout. Still, the width should be compressed in half. The distance between bases is fine, though.

Fire Eye, 3/10
This map has such a labyrinthine form of alternate paths that I, for like a whole minute or two, could not find anyone. The lava is not a good gimmick, as it makes it hard to get out if you do not have the Inferno Shield. In that case, shieldless players should be hurt, yes, but it should be easier to get out of the lava than it is now.

Physics Lab, 6/10
It's cool, but it's hard to find anyone; and that's a real disappointment, because your gimmick was executed so well. This map looks like it's total MAD SCIENTIST!

Asteroid Belt, NA/10
I want another chance in this level. The two chances I was given weren't good ones.

I think my bias of "ugh...I don't like these maps" was kicking in when I first rated the CTF levels. I apologize for that. Furthermore, I didn't get a very good chance to play with enough people in Frozen River the first time.
 
Jazz, I don't think your download link works anymore because when I tried to download it, it would give me a 404. Can you fix that so I can download it, please?
 
Downloading file...
And there is a game named JazzAttack.
I'll edit my post and you'll see my option about this set.
EDIT:
Great set! Enjoyed it!
 
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