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Old 08-06-2016   #1
Ritz
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Not starting a thread to tease just yet. I'm still in the drafting phase for this wad, so I don't have anything to show besides graphics and some gimmick tests. My goal is to build a zone entirely from scratch, custom objects included. I'm definitely going to need someone to code shit for me, so I need to start a dialogue early so I'm not constructing a stage around concepts that may never be implemented.

First up:



Manually editing TRANS lumps to remap the palette when viewing a scene through translucent solid color walls. It's an awful lot like professional color grading with LUTs.

Spoiler:
You can use this to fake color cycling with animated textures. Here, I'm shifting every color in the palette forward one index per frame. Here's the same effect with a more deliberate result.

Problem is that it's only really good for fancy windows, since there's no way to apply the filter color as a volume (I tried mixing it with colormaps BUT). Solution: Vectrex-style color overlays. I need a script that will render a texture over the entire screen as a HUD element. Ideally, there should be a way to specify the texture and translucency level of that texture using the data fields on whatever sector I use to trigger the script.

Anyone wanna do that for me?!
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Last edited by Ritz; 08-06-2016 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 08-06-2016   #2
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It's a nice effect that could be used to emulate classic special stages.

...

I don't see any other use for this elsewhere though.
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Old 08-06-2016   #3
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I can name twenty uses, and the first is alternate color schemes like this without having to load a separate palette (which I'm not sure you can even do mid-level, save for loading a separate wad in the console like that). Color cycling can be used for stuff like Marble Garden's time-of-day transition. I've got a pretty solid background in palette manipulation, it's gonna be cool.
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Last edited by Ritz; 08-06-2016 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 08-06-2016   #4
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Please consider that OpenGL does translucency by making textures actually translucent instead of remapping colours based on a lump like software rendering. This makes it so what you're doing just does not work at all in OpenGL (and even then, think about spindash/spin/thok trails in software!). Besides the lack of OpenGL compatibility, I guess it's actually pretty neat.

Last edited by Zwip-Zwap Zapony; 08-06-2016 at 07:36 AM. Reason: "How" into "That"
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Old 08-06-2016   #5
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OpenGL is unsupported. ヾ(囗`。)ノ

A big part of why I even started this project is because I specifically wanted to work with Doom's indexed graphics. I love having direct control over how the game interprets color, lighting and translucency, it's like the poor man's approach to shader coding. Like, if I want my pipes to have a metallic sheen, I can go into the COLORMAP lump and just paint some contrast into that color range so that the texture doesn't lose its specularity in the dark. That's fun.

Also, player trails and whatever else will be fine, my palette management game is tight. Right now, the colors I'm using for filtering are shades that aren't ever going to be translucent, like reds and browns in an environment that's predominantly blue. Plus, there's virtually nothing to worry about if you're working in an opacity range you know you're never going to need, like 90% or 10%.
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Last edited by Ritz; 08-06-2016 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 08-06-2016   #6
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I would quote you, but the non-ASCII characters prevent me from doing so (without having to manually type in the quote code), so... OpenGL being unsupported is exactly why I brought that up. After all, many (at least some) people can't stand how software rendering looks in Sonic Robo Blast 2. I'm not saying what you're doing is completely wrong and should be avoided at all costs (...I suppose I actually am saying that), just that you should try and see if you can make it at least a little bit OpenGL compatible where possible, so it doesn't look too bad in OpenGL.
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Old 08-06-2016   #7
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Looks pretty interesting. This is something that i wouldnt see around the editing forum. Like chrome said, The only use i see the colour cycling is in special stages, like when in Sonic 2 you get the emerald and the background cycles in colour.
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Old 08-06-2016   #8
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Zappy, what you're asking for is impossible to support in OpenGL without completely rewriting the renderer - which is totally a long term goal of the devs, but not something we have the manpower to do right now. In the meantime, you'll have to play in Software to get the full experience of Ritz's map (once it's released).

I think you'll be disappointed, though - because those changes will make the game look more like the current Software mode, since fidelity to that is what we consider the "true" experience of the game.
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Old 08-06-2016   #9
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Quote:
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Zappy, what you're asking for is impossible to support in OpenGL without completely rewriting the renderer -
Then you're reading it wrong. I'm not saying "make it support OpenGL", I'm saying "remember OpenGL doesn't support it", as in "don't go too overboard with it and base the whole level around it too majorly". (Or at least that's what I'm trying to say.)

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I think you'll be disappointed, though - because those changes will make the game look more like the current Software mode, since fidelity to that is what we consider the "true" experience of the game.
Firstly, if it's going to be a shader which can then be overriden (for example by no special shader) through Wads or such as the plans once were, I could just disable it. And secondly, I know how to compile SRB2 as well as do some things in the source code, so if the former won't be made possible, I could probably just go find and disable it and then compile the game myself.
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Old 08-06-2016   #10
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Don't shit up ANOTHER fucking topic with renderer fanboyism.

I doubt you need me to tell you again, Ritz, but the things you've been doing for this level are really cool. It's hard to believe it took this long for someone to start playing with the renderer like that, and what I've seen of the stage graphics is a work of art.
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Old 08-06-2016   #11
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It's okay, I guess.



Actually it is so super duper cool I have to hide my jealousy over your artistic prowess in this tiny font. Keep up the good work - I love what you're wringing from the renderer!
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Old 08-06-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Problem is that it's only really good for fancy windows, since there's no way to apply the filter color as a volume (I tried mixing it with colormaps BUT). Solution: Vectrex-style color overlays. I need a script that will render a texture over the entire screen as a HUD element. Ideally, there should be a way to specify the texture and translucency level of that texture using the data fields on whatever sector I use to trigger the script.

Anyone wanna do that for me?!
http://lyrawearspants.com/wads/overlay.lua <- The script itself, with usage instructions in comments that should hopefully be self-explanatory

http://lyrawearspants.com/wads/overlay_test.wad <- A test WAD demonstrating the functionality (translucent FOFs are added to mark the trigger sectors)

http://lyrawearspants.com/wads/overlay_test.dbs <- Zone Builder metadata (tag labels) for the above example file that might be somewhat useful?
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Old 08-06-2016   #13
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Dude, sick, thanks! Way more functional than I was expecting, too. Texture overlaying the HUD won't be a problem since I can just exclude those colors in the TRANS lumps. I won't complain about the text if nobody else does.

Thanks for the kind words too. You know I wouldn't be doing this if not for the great work you guys have done since 2.1. I really want to do justice to all these nice features nobody's been taking advantage of.
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Old 08-07-2016   #14
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Ritz please allow me to take your work-in-progress' hand in marriage

Muchas gracias
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Old 08-08-2016   #15
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The colors are FREE
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Old 08-08-2016   #16
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I wasn't going to pay for them anyway
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Old 08-08-2016   #17
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Holy shit

Holy shit

Holy shit

I'm sorry this is just so incredible. it's the palletisation dream I've always wanted to see
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Old 08-08-2016   #18
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This is all impressive stuff, but I'm more interested in how it plays -- it looks like some sort of undersea exploration adventure, which is something I've always wanted to do.
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Old 08-08-2016   #19
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Wow, the level... is so cool!
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Old 08-08-2016   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post


The colors are FREE
Am i looking at Unicorn barf?

Very..... psychedelic i must say
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