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Old 06-30-2014   #1
Mystic
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Default May/June 2014 Voting

Welcome to the May/June 2014 SRB2 Official Level Design Contest voting topic!

To vote, play a few games of each stage in a division and create a list of all the maps in the division, arranging them from best to worst with no ties. If you are voting on a division that includes your own entry, you should list your own map as the best regardless of your opinion on the quality of your own map. Although it's not required for votes to count, it's very helpful to make comments about what you liked and didn't like about the map, so the author can improve for future attempts. Please separate your comments from your votes, though, to make it easier for us to tally the scores at the end.

Voting will end July 15, 2014 at 7 PM local time in the Eastern time zone of the United States. Like the entry deadline, this counts the United States's daylight savings time between March and November. Votes submitted after this time will not be counted in the tally, so if you want to be counted, don't vote at the last minute.

After the voting period ends, the votes will be tallied. For each vote, the map they ranked first gets n-1 points, second place gets n-2 points, third gets n-3, all the way down to n-n (zero) points for last, where n is the number of maps in the division. Each map's points are added together to create that map's final score, and the map with the highest score wins the division. Should there be a tie, the votes are calculated again with only the tied maps included. If this still fails to break the tie, the tie stands and both maps are winners.

The entries are as follows:

Single Player
Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'" - 176 points - 6th
Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX - 180 points - 5th
Glacier Gear Zone by toaster - 376 points - 2nd
Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac - 345 points - 3rd
Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber - 65 points - 9th
Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother - 124 points - 7th
Sand Valley Zone by Chrome - 334 points - 4th
Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic - 100 points - 8th
Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic - 424 points - 1st

Match
Crystal Coast Zone by Steel Titanium - 0 points - 3rd
Moonlit Precipice Zone by Knux576 - 31 points - 2nd
Climate Chaos Zone by EvilEnternity3000 - 32 points - 1st

Capture the Flag
Old Sport Zone Act 1922: New Money vs Old Money by Jellybones and Eblo - 40 points - 4th
Quicksand Caverns Zone by RedEnchilada - 48 points - 3rd
Forbidden Woods Zone by the cyan - 67 points - 1st
Wtf? Ctf by Root and CyanFox - 4 points - 5th
Techno Laser 4 by CoatRack - 61 points - 2nd
Attached Files
File Type: zip scr_mayjun14-part1.zip (28.06 MB, 1356 views)
File Type: zip scr_mayjun14-part2.zip (10.39 MB, 1146 views)
File Type: zip mf_contest-mayjun14.zip (992.7 KB, 662 views)

Last edited by Mystic; 07-16-2014 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Adding results
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Old 07-01-2014   #2
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Single Player

Spoiler:
Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
  • really pretty
  • i like the use of the spring panels
  • the penguin enemies can be kind of obnoxious at times but they're not too bad

Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
  • the 2d with actual turns makes a huge difference in the level's visual quality, although it likes to bug out slightly in the spiral sections when you don't know what direction to press
  • while some parts of the level look nice, the majority of inside areas are really boring to look at (with the exception of the midtexture tricks such as the gears)
  • the enemy placement is annoying as hell
  • the final area looks barren and unfinished
  • you can't actually thok or use shield abilities on the chain springs which can throw a player off sometimes

Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
  • probably one of the best-looking maps i've ever seen
  • a bit on the easy side
  • the bobbing platforms like to go off sync a lot

Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
  • overall a really solid level, though it has some issues
  • the platforms you need to spin to raise could have been introduced better
  • the falling death sand should have had a slightly longer delay, considering it will usually kill you if you get hit at all
  • the falling posts will mess with your camera sometimes
  • boring to look at

Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother
  • looks nice but you could have used better or less textures in some areas
  • really short
  • you need to give a better visual cue for some of the death traps, or make them less lethal

Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
  • you should have used effect 4 on the teleports so they wouldn't look as jarring
  • don't use so much music if you're only going to listen to it for thirty seconds on average
  • invisible walls suck
  • another really short map

Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
  • the power bar was neat
  • you could have used a better tileset than gfz
  • the power bar, while cool, could have been taught to the player better and used in more places
  • really short
  • you could have brightened up the level as a whole

Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber
  • it's an overall average map
  • could have used a better grass texture
  • half of your motobugs are broken
  • the slopes were pointless
  • don't put the exit right in front of the player and then block it with an invisible wall

Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic
i see somebody finally took the wiki's suggestion of blending jungle and electricity
  • the map is colorful but the dual themes clash more than they blend
  • most of the jungle textures suck so don't use them
  • the dark cave part can be removed entirely or brightened up
  • never put enemies in total darkness
  • the level layout is confusing as fuck
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Old 07-01-2014   #3
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Is anyone else having problems with the first single player zip?
Spoiler:

It won't let me paste the files into my SRB2 folder.
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Old 07-01-2014   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler52 View Post
Is anyone else having problems with the first single player zip?
Spoiler:

It won't let me paste the files into my SRB2 folder.
Try re-downloading the files. Sometimes if it seemingly downloads almost instantly it is not downloading correctly. If they do not work today try again tomorrow. I had the same thing happen to me with other files before. The contest files worked for me and I am using WinRAR as well.
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Old 07-01-2014   #5
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I haven't had any problems with the SP archives. I opened them in Explorer and all of the ZIPs worked fine.

Anyway, VOTING TIME (I'll get to Match later)


SINGLE PLAYER:

Rankings
Clock Towers Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother
Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber
Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic

Spoiler: opinions

Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'" - B-
I don't understand the complaints about the extra ring monitor flavors and other changes to gameplay mechanics. The speed bar is a bit silly for a standalone level, but this looks like it's intended as part of a level pack, in which case they work well to give some variety to the gameplay.

It definitely has that "first level of a level pack" vibe. There's plenty of stuff to explore, which is pretty nice, and ultimately the level does what it sets out to do. I like that. A level of this type naturally won't be able to compete with some of the other maps in this contest, and my letter ranking is biased toward that, but I can't really come up with any flaws! Good jorb.


Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX - B+
It's pretty nice! I liked how the button hunt wasn't obnoxious. The aesthetics and the flaming arrow Robo Hoods were also pretty cool. Trapgoyles were used decently but not as well as they could have been.

There are too many jumps that Sonic can only barely make, though. Silent teleports are a cheap way to connect level sections together; please remove them and actually stitch the level together. The boss at the end was silly, even if the arena was well-designed otherwise.


Glacier Gear Zone by toaster - A
Actually amazing. When I tested the map before it had issues, but they've all been fixed for the contest. The only issue is the penguins being pretty bad, but otherwise I love this. The secret was amazing, too. I hesitate to only write what amounts to two lines in Notepad, but consider it a testament to how much I love this level I guess? It's really good.


Clock Towers mystic pls fix Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac - popeye
First things first, I apologize for some of the technical limitations players might run into during this level. Namely forcing the use of strafe keys. I explain why that is elsewhere in the topic, but for the cliffnotes here, suffice it to say Lua doesn't have the capabilities we needed to make movement with the turn keys happen. (That said, you people really should be using WASD+Mouse controls by default. Seriously. Arrow key turning is a horrible way to play SRB2 in general.)

Second things second, if it wasn't painfully obvious by the generally plain gameplay, this level was really designed more as an Axis2D showcase than anything else. I still tried to make a good level, of course - I'm not that dumb - but the general lack of gimmicks was... I'm not going to say it was intentional, but it was just a side effect of focusing on showing off my fancy script.

That said, I'm glad that the votes so far haven't been thrown off by the script, and that people have judged the level on its own merits and shortcomings instead. It's definitely not the best in the contest, but I'm proud of myself for getting a complete level done in a two-month period and having it not be a total pile of ass! I hope it at least does its job as a good demonstration of the script, and that people see this and are inspired to make their own. If people look back at this level and say "it wasn't terrible, but if it wasn't showing off a script it wouldn't be notable at all", I've accomplished my goal.

As for the collab, Pac's work was mostly in the skybox layout and in working on the script. (And moral support! I probably would've quit halfway through if we hadn't decided to make it a collab.) The work load is probably something like a 75-25 split, but I still really appreciate having someone to bounce ideas off of. I also wanna shout out everyone who played the alphas and betas on IRC!

That's a lot of text, so I'll make it up by posting some super-secret EMBLEM GUIDES as GIFs. Click through to each for the methods of acquisition of each emblem, as well as tips for record attacks if anyone actually cares enough to do those!

Spoiler: emblem hints

Go from a life box straight to the dorm room.
Above Robo-Hood does this emblem loom.
Use Facestabber to glide,
Jump from the windows' side,
And then soar past the exit to your doom.

Score Attack
There's an Armageddon Shield in the lower path after the first starpost. It's on the left side of the building after the spring, up high. You can just reach it with a spindash from the S platform as Sonic! Use it right there to get a bunch of points. Then just go for point boxes and ring attack.

Time Attack/Lightning Emblem
Top path at the first split, get the speed shoes. Bottom path at the second split (if done well, it's slightly faster than the top split). Grab the Whirlwind Shield, use it to skip most of the second-to-third starpost section, and get a few extra jumps. Enter PLAYDEMO DEVTIME in the console to see my best time!

Ring Attack/Perfect Bonus Emblem
Above the building to your left at the start are 24 rings. Otherwise, there aren't any hidden rings. It's theoretically possible to get a perfect bonus as Sonic if you're really really good at the game! I wanted to actually do it and stick the replay in the WAD, but I kept losing runs in stupid places because I'm bad.


On a last note, re: chains, it's kind of awkward but I considered it a worthwhile tradeoff to allow the player to correct not holding the jump button when they bounce on a spring without accidentally thokking into some hazard. It's probably not the best solution, though. (Maybe I should have considered the up and down keys for increasing bounce height? :x)

I do appreciate all of the comments, by the way. In the few hours the contest files have been up I've learned a valuable lesson not to ignore the little voice in my head telling me that something needs changed. (Some of the things that have been brought up occured to me during development, but I considered them minor issues and let them slide. Whoops?)

Also, for those who have been asking about the music, it's this track! I made it loop to a later point in the song than the MP3 does, though, since I didn't consider going back to the buildup very good for the level.


Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber - C
I'm about to get lambasted by the rest of the community for saying this, but I enjoyed this level! Now, I'm not going to defend it as a good level, because objectively it's a pretty mediocre level, but I have a soft spot for simple, easy maps that just give you some level geometry to explore (whether or not there's even anything waiting - finding a neat perch to reach is fun!). I even went and got all the emblems. Including a "beta" was a stupid thing to do, though.

That said, I unfortunately can't really give any helpful criticism. The mediocrity of the level doesn't stem from anything being done wrong, but rather the lack of anything notable being done; it's a level with GFZ-tier difficulty and GFZ-tier plainness, but it's not quite as well-made. You've done exploration and such well, but for the level to be good there needs to be something captivating about the gameplay itself.

Also, please don't use fake stair-slopes for no good reason. Slope physics could probably be done in a pretty fun way if they used Lua to integrate actual physics that were then used for the level design, but weirdo conveyors just feel cheap.


Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother - C+
This has a very "first level" feel. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way! The level's perfectly spacious, there aren't any amateur mistakes like undeafed rings, and it's layed out well. It's just not cohesive - we go from cliffside to castle to caves to ruins and back again in the span of a single level, and a couple of those themes don't really work together. If the castle was replaced and the ruins retextured to not be DSZ textures, it'd really help the cohesiveness of the level.

Overall, as easy as it was, the level design was pretty nice too. The 2D section was cute, even (I liked how even blindly thokking through the first section never put me at risk of a cheap death, even if it looked like it would), and I liked the one cave room with the currents pushing you off of your platform, though maybe the death pit in there should be replaced. The arrow signs should definitely go, and I don't think anything needs to be done to replace them; the level design and ring placement do a good job of pointing the way anyway. That said, there are problems with empty space in certain places, so work on trimming or filling those bits in, and sometimes the direction is a bit confusing; at the start if you take the left path, it's easy to get turned around, and taking the right path at the waterslide section leads to a room with a slightly confusing exit (I died a couple of times looking for the right place to go).

Lastly, the level needs a gimmick to make it stand out. The currents are touched on, but aren't played with enough to feel like a central gimmick; consider expanding on the use of these.


Sand Valley Zone by Chrome - B-? B? idk really
This is a very polarizing level to me. While it does a lot of good things, it also does a lot of bad things. The overall result is still pretty good, but it's not very good. So let's start with the good:

I really like your attention to giving Knuckles something special to do. His path is highly interesting (putting the one in Clock Towers to shame, certainly!) and while it still suffers from many of the same flaws as the rest of the level, it's certainly a highlight. I like the concept of the spindash-raising blocks, even if they really need some explanation. (I wouldn't have known how to use them except for the GIF you posted right before the deadline.) Once I figured out how to operate the light quicksand, it was a pretty fun gimmick.

However...

The light quicksand is difficult to operate. I feel like most of this is SRB2's fault so I'm not going to be too harsh about it, but putting difficult jumps over death pits with a glitchy mechanic is generally not the best of ideas. The dark quicksand as a whole should go; it's annoying and I've had multiple times where I jumped in a dark sand fall and could do nothing but inch slowly forward as I asphixiated to death. I'd actually prefer a damaging hazard in most of the places where it's used.

Fuck every single one of those detons. They work best in rooms where avoiding them is the point, not as surprise hazards that discourage exploration. Also, while most of the BASH placement was fine, there were some, mostly in the tunnels, that felt like they just flew at you for free points. My final issue is that crumbling platforms get used in some really infuriating ways. The big thing sticking out to me was one room where the player was expected to ignore the wide-open area to their right, make a 135-degree turn left from crumbling platform over a death pit to a few more, and dodge those damn dark sandfalls all the while. That left a bad impression.

Aesthetically, the level suffered from being a bit monotone and 1.09ish, but still looked good in spite of those qualities. The non-damaging glowing lava-rock-stuff at the beginning was weird, though. I'm guessing that's a transition from a prior level in a pack?

Also, use the Intangible to the Camera sector special on some of your FOFs. Especially the weird-ass crushing planks. There's nothing worse than the camera being stuck fifty feet away while I'm trying to keep from getting crushed.


Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic - D+
What is it with you people and shitty Deton placement? I swear it'd be nice to be able to see or hear them coming before taking an undeserved hit. Otherwise, every cool thing here is offset by bad execution. The dark cave was nice to look at at first, but once you started adding platforming and a confusing layout it became miserable. I liked the triggers that actually did something, but the one that crumbled the ceiling of the cave sent me into less than a frame per second. The wide area with the swinging chains is nice, but turning on lasers when a button is pressed was pretty dumb and the laser jumping challenge afterward hurt my eyes.

The level also has a badly-applied hybrid theme. Jungle/factory can work, but not by putting glass in the middle of a cave. Work on that a bit. The swinging chains are a bit out of place thematically, but they work well where they're used, so I can forgive it. The design as a whole has a weird habit of switching between fairly nice setpiece rooms and zero-effort hallways. Work on that a bit more.

P.S. float your rings and use a better music slot. Tunes 24 doesn't work for the jungle bits and I actually switched it to 6 on my first playthrough.


Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic - B+
Your graphic work is absolutely beautiful. I want to devour you and metamorphose into a good visual designer using your nutrients.

With that out of the way, I wanna talk about what I didn't like. The first room has a serious issue with frame lag, which makes a terrible first impression. I'm also not a fan of the vertical ascent leading to having to redo most of the room if you fall off, but it's short so it's not so bad. The next big outdoor room also has framerate issues to a lesser extent. I love the gust tube gimmick, but other gimmicks in the levels tend to be hit-and-miss; the spindash platforms in particular suffer the same issue as Sand Valley where they aren't obvious unless you know what to do beforehand.

I do wish there was a bit more challenge than the occasional spike. Some simple enemies would have been great to see. In general the level suffers from being a bit overfocused on visuals, and some rooms are rather devoid of gameplay. There's also that one confusing path merge with the gust tube room that hasn't really been fixed at all; it should probably be replaced.




CAPTURE THE FLAG:

Rankings
Quicksand Caverns Zone by RedEnchilada
Forbidden Woods Zone by the cyan
Techno Laser 4 by CoatRack
Old Sport Zone Act 1922: New Money vs Old Money by Jellybones and Eblo
Wtf? Ctf by Root and CyanFox

Spoiler: opinions

Old Sport Zone Act 1922: New Money vs Old Money by Jellybones and Eblo - D
It's really large. Like, probably about three times as big as it should have been. And the opposite team rings in the bases is bad for gameplay, even if I still remember the nonsensical analogy you tried to make out of it when we tested it forever ago. That said, if those were fixed this would be a... passable map? Not great, but not bad either.


Quicksand Caverns Zone by RedEnchilada - butt
The layout is a bit confusing, and I apologize for that. I found out in our big OLDC netgame that the space countdown noise is played to other players and gives away your position, which is fantastic for thwarting sneak attacks to the attentive player and I wish I'd known that sooner so I could design more of the map around it.


Forbidden Woods Zone by the cyan - B
I quite enjoyed this map! It wasn't knock-out amazing, but it was pretty good, probably a pretty good competitor to mine! The only thing I didn't like is those FUCKING SPRINGS TO THE FLAG STAND. They're terrible and I got caught up by those ledges way too often.


Wtf? Ctf by Root and CyanFox - F
I got a chuckle out of the pancakes vs waffles thing, and I had a damn good chuckle when I got a nuke (as the Mumble group can attest to), but the map itself is just terrible. Asymmetry isn't necessarily bad, but I only saw an infinity ring on one side, which is pretty bad. The map is also pathetically small, to the point where a spin-jump can take you straight from one base to the other. The map itself is also really ugly, as a side note.


Techno Laser 4 by CoatRack - C
The layout is really obtuse and takes a long time to figure out where to go, which is just a given in large maps, but even once you figure it out it's very hard to navigate. It's not terrible otherwise, and it's very nice-looking, but it wasn't a ton of fun. We also had someone get stuck in the normal level as small, but I think he just got lost.
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Last edited by RedEnchilada; 07-07-2014 at 06:52 PM. Reason: SINGRE PRAYER
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Old 07-01-2014   #6
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The following is my slightly edited stream-of-consciousness comments on the single player maps, in order from best to worst, including ratings out of 10:

Spoiler: Rantings on SP maps
Seraphic Skylands - 9/10
I love everything about this map, except for its lack of enemies. Also, some of the waterfalls here could do with currents. Props for using my favorite grass textures, though. Graphically superior in general. A map worthy of vanilla SRB2. Please make more SP maps so I can love you even more.

Clock Towers - 8/10
A good demonstration of the new Axis2D thingamajig (Though the script itself definitely needs work). Great graphics. Interesting secrets. Pretty easy to miss that last jump, though, and I'm not sure how I feel about the music choice. I was impressed that you included a demo. Nice title screen, by the way, it was...unexpected, to say the least.

Glacier Gear - 7/10
Nice title screen. Good music choice. Badniks seem a bit too harsh. Great gimmicks. Nice skybox. Love the earthquake effect. Great texture choices. Waterfall/stalagmite area should have slightly less frequent waterfalls, IMO. I got too frustrated and noclipped past it. Nice use of goo. 2D section was unexpected. I greatly appreciated that crusher button :P . Great scenery. Good overall, but those laser penguins get really frustrating really fast.

Floral Road 1 - 7/10
Nice music choice -- I'm partial to Door Into Summer. Cool sky. I like what you did to the red Crawlas, though I certainly wasn't expecting it. Interesting speed buff mechanic. A bit too easy to go in circles. Texture alignment issues. Nice scenery additions. Doesn't do anything particularly interesting, however.

Emerald Lake 2 - 7/10
I have to call you out for using an OGG version of that music instead of a VGM. You could've saved a lot of file size that way. Nice colormaps. I disapprove of the use of Jet Jaws here, mostly because they tend to blend in with the textures. You're missing a few grass borders here and there. Why are some of the triangle textures so pixellated? Flat alignment issues here and there. Why the fence at the end? Average gameplay overall. You must have hidden those emblems well, since I didn't find any on my first playthrough.

Sand Valley - 6/10
Nice scenery. Interesting music choice. Flat alignment issues. What is wrong with this space countdown quicksand? The quicksand in general feels too slippery for quicksand. Cool new textures. Good secrets. Texture alignment issues. Too many death pits. Too many Detons -- they seem to discourage exploration in the areas they dwell in, which is the last thing you want in a Sonic game. I liked the part where you jump in the sand-fall in order to go upwards. Why do a bunch of floors crumble beneath sonic's feet? They should be more obvious. Some areas have too much brown and not enough of other colors. Not great overall.

Midnight Caves - 6/10
Looks pretty. Reminds me of Mystic Realm a bit. Why are there teleports here? I liked the emerald token location. Way to hide stuff behind the exit :P . Too short and doesn't try anything interesting.

Sacred Woodland - 5/10
An overall strange level. Doesn't fit the mood of SRB2. The small button hunt is forgivable, but teleports and a Brak fight in the middle of a forest? Not so much. Also, texture alignment issues. Seems lacking in inspiration, really.

Egg Outposts - 4/10
The music doesn't really fit. Multiple texture alignment issues. Weird textures in general. The scenery isn't anything special, despite looking like some effort was put into it. Not a fan of all the collapsing floors. Needs more springs overall to help players get where they need to go without having to look for them. The hall with the crystals was cool, but much too dark. I quit playing after noclipping around there for a bit attempting to find the way out. I've been told there's a route near there that takes you to the finish, but the fact that I didn't find it the first time should tell you something.
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Old 07-01-2014   #7
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I just tried downloading the zip again in IE and it worked fine, so I don't know what could have been the problem.

I'll edit this post with my SP votes once I finish playing the maps.
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Old 07-01-2014   #8
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half my motobugs are broken? how? All of them were working during my multiple tests.
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Old 07-01-2014   #9
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Dammit Red, you broke the controls in Clock Towers again. I can't use my left and right keys like in a previous version so I was forced to use my strafe keys.
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Old 07-01-2014   #10
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Single Player (EDIT:Rerated Sand Valley):
Spoiler:

Seraphic Skylands 10/10
seraphic skylands for vanilla please
Glacier Gear 9/10
Awesome level (from what i played) . But it was hard to find my way around (i went to an area thinking i was supposed to go there, but it turned out it was the end of a different path. I didn't beat it because the multiplayer pack came out and i wanted to be in servers soon as possible.
Clock Tower 8/10
Good level, and 2DAxis is awesome. It was a bit hard though, and WHY THE FUCK DO YOU USE STRAFE TO MOVE?!
Floral Road 8/10
I really like this level. But, it was sort of hard to find my way around. Also i like the gauge mechanic.
Sand Valley 7/10
Ok, after being called an idiot by Speedwagon The Douche, i decided to replay the level, and i realized its not actually that bad. I actually like the quicksand mechanic, also the scenery looks good. It is a bit hard though.
Emerald Lake Act 2 5/10
Ok level, but it looked cramped, and that emerald token was so easy to find i actually found it while looking for where i was supposed to go.
Midnight Caves 5/10
Also an ok level, but again, found emerald token while looking for the exit.
Sacred Woodland 4/10
I had no idea where i was supposed to be going. Eventually i got past an area, and then i quit. Looks good though.
Egg Outposts 3/10
The level is cramped, it looks like you exchanged actual quality for thing scenery, that cave looks cool but was so dark I HAD TO SWITCH TO FULL BRIGHTNESS TO SEE IT. Also, that cutscene lagged my SRB2, and then i got crushed by a random crusher that came from nowhere...AND GOT SENT BACK TO THE START? WTF?!

Last edited by Root; 07-01-2014 at 04:08 AM. Reason: Fixing a rating.
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Old 07-01-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightspeedX View Post
Dammit Red, you broke the controls in Clock Towers again. I can't use my left and right keys like in a previous version so I was forced to use my strafe keys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Root View Post
and WHY THE FUCK DO YOU USE STRAFE TO MOVE?!
Unfortunately, SRB2 has no consistent mechanism to detect when the turn keys are pressed in Lua. I could get away with it when I made Space Chase because the actual player object stayed in one spot at one consistent angle, but with Axis2D the player's constantly turning, so the only method that lets me read it causes ghost inputs to be sent even when you're not using those keys. It's really unfortunate and I tried to fix it, but it wasn't working.

You can at least turn analog on and use the turn keys to move if you don't mind Knuckles' gliding being a bit buggy.
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Old 07-01-2014   #12
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Originally Posted by Root View Post
that emerald token was so easy to find i actually found while looking for where i was supposed to go.
Ok, but did you find the other tokens?

There are 4 total tokens, 2 in regular ELZ, and 2 in Beta

How to access Beta will be revealed soon.
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Old 07-01-2014   #13
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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Ok, but did you find the other tokens?

There are 4 total tokens, 2 in regular ELZ, and 2 in Beta

How to access Beta will be revealed soon.
I only found one of the tokens.
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Old 07-01-2014   #14
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Single Player
Spoiler:
Glacier Gear > Seraphic Skylands > Sand Valley > Clock Tower > Midnight Caves > Sacred Woodland > Floral Road 1 > Emerald Lake 2 > Egg Outposts

Floral Road Zone Act 1: 6.5/10. Not a bad introductory level, but it's a little too wide-open and devoid of interesting stage gimmicks. Also, why is that level-up system of yours here?

Sacred Woodland: 7/10. I like the atmosphere of this level, but the frequent teleports are kind of irritating, making this feel less like a coherent environment and more like a series of challenge rooms. The spikeballs in that one section with the flame gargoyles are also a bit hard to see and okay I'm fighting Brak Eggman now.

Glacier Gear Zone: 8.75/10. Besides some occasional obnoxious placement of those owl badniks, I can't think of any major issues I have with this level. The visuals are nicely detailed, the upper/lower path areas are well-implemented, and the bouncy blue walls make for a neat gimmick. There was one area of the 2D section where the slime was an unusually dark shade of purple, though, which led me to mistake it for 2.0 damaging slime. I also think a little more should be done to indicate that those blue lasers trigger traps rather than hurt you.

Clock Tower Zone: 7.75/10. The Lua work here is very impressive, as I'm sure everyone is going to say, and quite honestly I have no idea how half of this stuff was even programmed. However, I am judging the level itself, not the code behind it, so I have to deduct a few points because of its numerous insignificant problems that ended up making my playthrough significantly less fun. The most notable of these is the fact that the strafe keys are the only way to run left and right, so I had to reconfigure my controls just to move comfortably. In addition, the bouncy chains don't always play their sound effect correctly, Sonic's thok is way too powerful for a 2D level, most of the Egg Guards are obnoxiously placed, and the semicircular ramps that transition you to a different depth have an annoying tendency to stop you dead in your tracks if you don't switch which direction you're pressing at exactly the right moment.

Emerald Lake Zone Act 2: 6/10. Like Floral Road 1, it's fine in terms of gameplay for a grassy introductory stage. Those moving chunks of land bob up and down far too slowly, though, and I wound up having to play through the most tedious section of the level three times because I misjudged their timing and fell. Aesthetically, it could use some work, but swap out the music for something with a few more bits and that repetitive cave texture for something less... repetitive... and it'll barely be an issue. Cut back on the underwater grass while you're at it - that just looks strange most of the time.

Midnight Caves Zone: 7.5/10. For a level called Midnight Caves, there weren't a whole lot of underground areas - it seemed like equal parts grassy cliffs, castle, and cave to me, but maybe that's just because of the paths I took. My main complaints with this one are aesthetic - the F_SKY1 death pits are a bit strange-looking, the level geometry in the cave 2D section is unnaturally rectangular, and the arrow signs don't blend in very well with their surroundings. A gimmick or two might also be nice, but good job overall.

Sand Valley Zone: 8/10. Good visuals, good gimmicks, good difficulty progression. It's a little hard to distinguish between Space Countdown sand and the regular variety, though, but it didn't take me that long to catch on. There's a bit of sand sector lighting weirdness, but without it it'd probably be even harder to tell the sand types apart, so I can forgive it. One of the checkpoints seems to spawn in the air and fall down to its proper position, there's one hallway where the player isn't slowed down sufficiently before the deadly hazards appear, and it'd be nice if there were some indication that the player needs to spin to activate those lifts, but those are all relatively minor issues in a generally well-designed level. (Speaking of the spin-activated lifts, you should probably implement a feature where they raise automatically for non-spinning characters, but maybe you've already thought of that.)

Egg Outposts Zone: 5.75/10. If I had to name one major problem with this level, it'd probably be that there isn't much to do but run forward and jump for the first half or so before you reach the cave area. As for the less serious complaints I have, there's a lot of them, so here we go: The cave is too dark and easy to get lost in, the mushroom platforms don't bounce you high enough, the Detons are too hard to dodge, the music is unfitting, the name is only descriptive of a small part of the level, some of the rings don't float, the glass tunnel near the beginning doesn't look great, and the difficulty progresses from easy to irritating far too abruptly.

Seraphic Skylands Zone: 8.25/10. The visuals are impressive, and the scrolling clouds skybox is a nice touch, but the opening room was detailed enough to lag the game a bit for me. Like Egg Outposts' first half, there isn't a lot of the player to do in the absence of those wind currents, although maybe that's kind of fitting considering that this seems to be more focused on scenery than action. Also, it appears that one (and only one, from what I saw) of the spin lifts from Sand Valley found its way in here, and I doubt I'd have figured out how to use it if I hadn't played that level first.

EDIT: Nevermind, there were in fact multiple spin lifts. They still seem kind of pointless, though. It also appears that one of your spike FOFs has its ceiling set too high:




Also, a message to all of you because I'm too lazy to check which particular maps had this problem: Please check your MAINCFG for errors before packaging your level up and submitting it to the contest. It's really not that hard to notice those yellow WARNING lines in the console.
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Old 07-01-2014   #15
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Single Player

Spoiler:
Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
I already spent some time talking to you about the beta, but I think this is an extremely high quality map and love it to death. The stage actively encourages exploration and the stage visuals are quite nice. The problems start arising because the stage visuals are TOO nice, generating some significant framerate drop, even all the way down at 640x400. The stage desperately needs some optimization, probably including the removal of some of the scenery and the reduction in some of the room sizes in order to get the level back up to a reasonable framerate. The fact that I'm voting it all the way at the top of the list really shows how good the level is otherwise. Just need that framerate fixed for a truly epic stage.

Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
This level was a complete surprise to me, and I quite loved it. While those penguins are a tad bit TOO mean in places, the whole stage is really well put together and filled with some gimmicks that work out great. I really liked the wall bounce gimmick in general and wished you did more with it. I especially loved the 2D section combining the slime and bouncy walls to do some awesome platforming. Some of the texture use could use a bit of cleaning up, but otherwise the level also looks quite good, combining two very different themes to good effect.

Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
First off, this is an amazing technical accomplishment and you deserve massive props for the scripts involved here. The actual stage itself, however, has a lot of problems that prevent it from being all that it can be. In particular, the places where you reverse direction going around a corner are awful to control, especially the one with the off-center camera area right afterwards. There's also the terrible path merge right near the end where you have to actively reverse direction after seeing a blinking star post. Other than the main level gimmick, your usage of enemies is often rage-inducing, and the Robo Hood are incredibly irritating basically everywhere they're used. If you must have a projectile-firing enemy, slow the projectile speed to make it work better in 2D mode. Obviously I'm saying a lot of words, but ranking it third, so I do still really like it. Just completely redo that damn enemy layout.

Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
There's nothing wrong with this stage from a technical standpoint, but I really do not enjoy the quicksand gimmick, and REALLY hate the "fast" quicksand. I found myself just mashing jump through tons of quicksand falls and being irritated extensively with it and not having fun. The stage would work a LOT better if none of the quicksand was fast sinking and none of it was particularly wide so you don't get stuck in it. Other than hating the quicksand, the Deton usage is just incredibly rage-inducing. I probably got hit with every single one in the stage in my attempts to explore, and being punished for trying to see what's in the other direction isn't fun. I like the actual platforming involved in the stage, but for me, the gimmicks just don't work out.

Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother
This stage is probably the definition of average. No significant gimmicks to speak of; nothing unique or cool, but nothing objectionable. At this point I'd say you've mastered the basic art of level design and should try moving on to adding gimmicks and a unified theme to your stages instead of a mishmash of basic rooms and platforming.

Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
This stage is also average, but has weird Lua mechanics that serve no purpose to the stage design. Being suddenly faster for no reason provides no benefit to the stage design, and throws off my ability to control as I've long-since put Sonic stats into muscle memory. You also have weird ring boxes of varying values for no discernible reason, and they don't spin properly.

Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber
Not wasting my time since you never listen anyways.

Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
I kept expecting Skulltulas or something to jump out at me, but nothing happened. "Nothing happened" basically sums up all the problems with this map, as there's basically nothing involved in any of the rooms. Also, invisible walls, extremely prominent in the boss room, are a VERY bad idea. I'd take a look at Midnight Caves and Floral Road to look at how decent beginner maps work, and see how they differ from your map.

Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic
It's really obvious that a lot of work went into this map, and several of the gimmicks are actually really neat, with a dark room lit by crystals that you destroy the roof of, waterslide secret passages, and a really neat area with lasers in grassy platforming. The problem comes with the production values, which are sloppy at best, with random looking sectors and rings that aren't even deafed. There's no flow to the stage, making it basically impossible as a player to figure out where you're supposed to go. When I took the dark route I ended up coming back out to the factory with no clear way to open the door. When the route is clear, it's often very frustrating, such as the room where you have to climb really high and bounce off mushrooms. That room is really neat but falling wastes over half a minute, which is really irritating. Players should never have to repeat the same sections over and over and over again when they've already mastered that section but not the section after that.
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Old 07-01-2014   #16
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Seeing as this is my first OLDC I've ever participated in as for voting, I was extremely excited for this. I only have my Single Player reviews and results and I've yet to actually play the Multiplayer Division but whenever I do, I'll just post something that redirects to this very post. So here we go!

Single Player Division
Spoiler: Reviews

Floral Road Zone Act 1 by "Lat'"
Pros:
  • Music was rocking.
  • Okay level design. Nothing too special.
Cons:
  • The Power Up Bar from Sonic Chrono Adventure felt forced.
  • Level could’ve been more festive with brighter colors.

Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
Pros:
  • Level was very atmospheric with the design and everything.
  • Robo Hood’s that shoot fire arrows (which is linked to another con).
  • The temple before heading inside really caught my eye when you first showed it off and I couldn’t wait to play it.
Cons:
  • The fire from Robo Hood’s fire arrows did not go away and if the fire arrow had hit a spring (like in my playthrough), you would have to take damage in order to use the spring.
  • The boss arena kinda felt cramped and unnecessary invisible walls.

Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
Pros:
  • Outstanding visuals and atmosphere.
  • The Axis-2D script was very well executed and actually made a 2D level fun.
  • The music is so good. If I could have a resource to that and put it on my computer, that would be excellent.
Cons:
  • Kinda minor but in order to play the level you need to use the strafe keys but that can easily be fixed by mapping your regular left and right to your strafe keys.
  • Robo Hoods.
  • I kinda got motion sickness on my first playthrough but for every other playthrough I was fine or had a minor headache.

Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
Pros:
  • Nice and very catchy music.
  • Love the Wacky Workbench gimmick and how if it’s underwater, it becomes an obstacle.
Cons:
  • The new and improved Penguinators wrecking my shit.

Emerald Lake Zone Act 2 by glaber
Pros:
  • The weird slopes. It’s nice to see new things.
Cons:
  • Over all, the level felt short.
  • Some textures were kinda eye straining.
  • Some Moto Bugs did not react to my presence even though I was right in front of them at times.

Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
Pros:
  • A well designed level.
Cons:
  • The overall gimmick throughout the level was fine for a little bit and then it got tedious as the level went on.
  • First timers will probably have a hard time getting used to knowing which quicksand will make you light and jump through the sand (ala Sonic 3) or which sand will force you to the floor and start the countdown and which in some areas, you couldn’t even tell which sand did which because the textures for the sand were swapped.
  • The crushers messed with the camera.

Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic
Pros:
  • The underground part with the crystals and the mushrooms reminded me of Terraria.
Cons:
  • Overall level design was boring and bland.
  • Force platforming in completely dark areas with stiff platforms made me rage quit.
  • Very unfitting music.


Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother
Pros:
  • Average level design.
Cons:
  • Questionable texture choices.
  • Really short.
  • Not really affecting it’s placement but the name is kinda misleading. Midnight Caves Zone. Most of the level is spent either outside near some cliffs or inside a cave which is only for a brief moment.

Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
Pros:
  • Outstanding visuals and textures.
  • Very well designed.
  • Really fitting music.
  • A fantastic skybox.
Cons:
  • Some lag issues but it’s minor.


FINAL RESULTS
Spoiler: Single Player Division as of 7/3/14
1st. Seraphic Skylands Zone
2nd. Clock Towers Zone
3rd. Glacier Gear Zone
4th. Sand Valley Zone
5th. Sacred Woodland Zone
6th. Floral Road Zone
7th. Midnight Caves Zone
8th. Emerald Lake Zone
9th. Egg Outposts Zone


Spoiler: Multiplayer Division as of 7/9/14
Match:
1st. Moonlit Precipice Zone
2nd. Climate Chaos Zone
3rd. Crystal Coast Zone

CTF:
1st. Techno Laser Act 4
2nd. Old Sport Zone Act 1922
3rd. Quicksand Caverns Zone
4th. Forbidden Woods Zone
5th. Wtf? CTF
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Last edited by Larztard; 07-09-2014 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Added Multiplayer Votes.
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Old 07-01-2014   #17
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SP:
Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber
Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother
Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic


MP:
Match-
Moonlit Precipice Zone by Knux576
Climate Chaos Zone by EvilEternity3000
Crystal Coast Zone by Steel Titanium

CTF-
Old Sport Zone Act 1922: New Money vs Old Money by Jellybones and Eblo
Forbidden Woods Zone by the cyan
Techno Laser 4 by CoatRack
Quicksand Caverns Zone by RedEnchilada
Wtf? Ctf by Root and CyanFox



single player reviews:
Spoiler:
Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
I loved this level. For one, since I know it will be mentioned- I don't think the camera, detons, or quick sand on the ground was a big deal. It didn't impede upon my enjoyment all that much. I liked the challenge presented a lot, and the scenery was great too. It isn't often you get a decent level with this theme, or unique gimmicks like the sand falls. My only real gripe was the platforms that required spinning. No way of knowing they did that. I only knew because I saw the gif you posted in the other thread. Otherwise..?

Glacier Gear Zone by toaster

Scenery is great here and so is the challenge. I thought the penguin enemies were super annoying, since the fire reaches across an entire room just to get to you. I enjoyed the unique gimmicks like the electricity in the slime and water, and the unique ice/base theme.

Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
This was an alright map. Beyond the visuals I didn't feel like there was a whole lot to it, it was more about the experience and sight seeing rather than any gameplay. Still, what there was to see was gorgeous. The skybox looked great and you had fantastic use of scenery, even if it caused some lag.

Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
You shouldn't use so much music for such short sections. The scenery was nice enough, and gameplay was there but really minimal. All in all, the most amount of time was spent in the boss fight, and that's not really what you want, is it? To add to that, the invisible barrier was annoying. If you want to block out the player at you could have put a wooden fence there. Brak Eggman is clearly suited to a simpler type of map, so he was just sort of a push over in an area that was really non-threatening without death pits and had as much cover as it did.

Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
Seriously? At least post something brief about how regular moving doesn't work. It's sort of silly that it's the only way but I understand that SRB2 can be buggy and everything. Still, it seriously impeded upon my first impression because I thought this was a joke level disguised as a serious one- one where you could only jump and thok. That's not the case now, but it's still annoying to move with strafe. As for things I actually liked, the theme is pretty unique and there's challenge here that actually forces you to move along rather quickly, thanks to robo hoods. The turning is also novel.

Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
Really average. There wasn't a lot to say about it. The speed mechanic was interesting in itself but not used to great effect- it just made me zoom past large sections of your level or made me slip and fall and have to climb my way back up. However, it did make me want to keep my rings, and I was intrigued before I figured out what it was. It's not particularly standout, but it's solid enough.

Emerald Lake Zone, Act 2 by glaber
Honestly, there's not much to say about it. I don't even remember it well. Just sort of a normal, okay map. Your Jet Moto bugs worked fine for me however, and I did like them. The music also might have brought back a few memories of 3D Blast, blissful ones of enjoying the game before I realized it was ass.

Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother

Fine enough, but it wasn't very interesting and I got lost a good bit. It was just running straight through and getting lost. Also, why have a spring going straight to an emerald? I thought that was the main path, emeralds are supposed to be in hidden areas as rewards for exploration. And in the context of being in an OLDC where we're just testing out your map, its inclusion is pretty pointless especially where it is.

Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic
This map went from okay to bad. Everything was fine, but then you introduced that cave area- it's completely dark. Visually it's kind of nice, but in practice it's a bitch hitting my toe on every wall and crystal in the dark, going in circles because where am I going. In the outdoor area, it's annoying have to fall from those chains or high up places instead of dying. It must have happened to me three or so times. Wasting time is more annoying than losing a life.

I'd really like to say a few things about Old Sport Zone.

I wanted it to be all about symbolism, just like the novel. The sheer size of the map represents the seemingly infinite distance from the green light to Gatsby. The whirlwhind monitor on the ceiling represents how Daisy has turned both the lives of Gatsby and Tom upside down, and how the order in their lives were swept away, as if by a whirlwhind. The opposite team rings in the base are a metaphor for the cheating that went on- in both the house of Gatsby and Tom, and how it entangled their lives. The abnormally large body outline is a subtle way of mentioning how big of an impact Myrtle's death had on George, and how big Gatbsy's plans for the future with Daisy were. If you have any questions about the map, ask away. I assure you not a fracunit went unmade without some sort of intense philosophy behind it.

Last edited by Jellybones; 07-15-2014 at 03:03 AM. Reason: added in votes for mp division, arranged sp division votes to be more easily read. and didn't forget midnight caves
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Old 07-01-2014   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Root View Post
Sand Valley 7/10
Ok, after being called an idiot by Speedwagon The Douche, i decided to replay the level, and i realized its not actually that bad. I actually like the quicksand mechanic, also the scenery looks good. It is a bit hard though.
That's because you didn't really give Sand Valley a chance and rated it very unfairly because you didn't have the audacity to complete it at the time. No need to call anyone a douche here. That was entirely your fault.
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Old 07-01-2014   #19
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level rank post
Spoiler:
1 Emerald Lake act 2
I have to say this level could have been worse if it wasn't for Charib convincing me to scrap the old level and start again. Unbfortunatly I couldn't get much feedback from him when I needed a tester.

anyway I said I'd reveal how to access the Beta version, to do this complete the level once, don't exit, when you start the level again, turn right and you'll see an out of place ring, head towards it and the wall behind it will open, enter the new cave and you'll be in Emerald Lake act 2 beta on the exact same map.
This works by use of line def actions 318 and 445, plus teleportation

The fish that don't move are actually from the base game under the Botanic Serenity category, so them not moving is not my fault.

2 Clock Tower Zone by RedEnchilada and Pac
I thought this level was one of the most creative. it made 2d mode much more dynamic, but there were a few spots that there were a bit of a problem and I had to switch directions while in motion.

3 Seraphic Skylands Zone by Spherallic
4 Glacier Gear Zone by toaster
5 Midnight Caves Zone by Chaobrother


6 Sand Valley Zone by Chrome
it was ok, but some of the objects were places higher than they should be, One checkpoint was also in the air when I respawned, another had me respawing in a wall.
ther were also a few missing textures including one that was an invisible wall. other than that, I didn't like the Quick mud.

7 Floral Road Zone, Act 1 by "Lat'"
It was decent, but felt a bit, bland. Might work as an early stage for a level pack.

8 Sacred Woodland by HAPPYFOX
Majora, we have a problem. The N64 Zelda music felt out of place here and having robohood shot everlasting flame arrows is a bad idea. Take too long and ou way is blocked by fire after repeated failuers.

The fire has to be able to go out.
Also using Mini Brack, it was ok, but why is that boss there?


9 Egg Outposts Zone by Tyrannic
Bad music choice, level feels over ambitious, and there's a button hunt.


Last edited by glaber; 07-02-2014 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 07-01-2014   #20
Root
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Match:
Spoiler:

Climate Chaos 9/10
I really like this map, the weather changing mechanic is awesome. though i think the layout is a bit weird. I actually want this in vanilla SRB2.
Moonlit Precipice 8.5/10
I like this one too, it looks really cool, and some of it reminds me of jade valley. But...dose grass trim errors tho
Crystal Coast 1/10
1.You shouldn't submit babbys first SRB2 map to the OLDC
2.Theres like...no scenery at all.
3.DON'T HIDE DEATH PITS UNDER OPAQUE WATER I'M GETTING FLASHBACKS TO GREEN MATCH AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
3.5.Whats with the black textures at the sides of the lake?
4.If you jump into the spring (instead of landing and walking into the spring) on the intangible from bottom platform, you get glitched and you are unable to move.

CTF:
Spoiler:

WTF? CTF (My map)
This isn't at the top because it has to be, its there because its the best map in the contest. /sarcasm. Also, i know its really easy to get to a base, if i had more time i would have moved the bases farther, as well as maybe added a secret passage or two. Also, CyanFox gave me the idea to make it a disco.
Old Sport 8/10
The title made me laugh. Not much else i can say..
Quicksand Caverns 7/10
I like this map, but one thing:You can easily get to the other base by monitor bouncing.
Techno Laser 4 7/10
I like how the map looks, but as people said, the layout is confusing.
Forbidden Woods 6.5/10
Ok map, it reminds me of clockwork towers. (The CTF map, not to be confused with the SP map in this contest) Not much else to say either...

Last edited by Root; 07-01-2014 at 05:50 AM.
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