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Old 09-01-2011   #21
Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
On that note, it is indeed possible to thok through the corners of the invisible wall.
So you can. I have no idea why, though :/
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Old 09-01-2011   #22
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Red House Zone by Ice - 6/10
I was surprised at how much fun I had in this. The level itself is a bit bland, with a distinct theming problem, especially inside the house, but overall it was quite fun. I would personally suggest being a little more consistent with texturing and enemy usage, as your enemies go all the way from Crawlas to the hardest enemies in the game. Also, I'd put some kind of grating above the red house to make it look less weird if you try to climb over it.

Pipe Towers Zone by Fawfulfan - 9/10
Alrighty, as much as I want to give this a 10, there are a few things that really do drag it down. Lemme get the good out of the way first: this level is so good it makes me want to go and fix Mario mode. You managed to actually get me exploring a stage, ramming every block I could for secrets, and looking around everywhere for stuff. Great fun. Most of the problems I have with the stage are parts of Mario mode that suck, but a few things are issues on the level design end. I really dislike the pipes you put in that lead down to a few coins and a spring. Either put a full secret area down there or don't let the player go down. Other quirks are things like the pipes on the ceiling that don't ever lead anywhere as Tails and the bouncy mushrooms in the early areas being a tad bit too small to be easy to use to bounce up. There was a spring next to a pipe that was possible to get completely stuck on, forcing me to reload the stage. It's also easy to get turned around in the underground area, but I had fun despite being lost and the ? blocks provide you with an easy method of knowing where you've been. Finally, I hit almost all of the normal blocks and didn't find anything. I demand secrets in those. Otherwise, I want you to make a castle now with the same production values, stat.

Aquatic Temple by Kuba11 - 6/10
There are a lot of things going for this map, but a few really problematic areas. The worst area is the gargoyle pushing puzzle. I don't have a problem with pushing gargoyles, but when it takes so infernally long to move them around over a long distance AND I'm doing this underwater so I have to interrupt what I'm doing to get air every 19 seconds, that really isn't fun. A lot of areas in the level seem to just be padding, with large open areas with not a whole lot in there. The theming also seems disjointed, especially the final room doesn't feel like it fits with the rest of the stage. On a positive note, I really like the section with the spikes and the crushers, and a lot of the secrets are quite neat, especially the Elemental Shield next to the vertical water current. Definitely a major improvement over your previous work, though.

Sonic Dumbventure - Volume 1: Donkey Kracken's Disasterous Quest by D00D64 - 8/10
Bad out of the way first: Some of the level design here is really Sonic Adventurish, with homing attack trails and other gimmicky things that I'd prefer remain in 2001. The homing attack in general in SRB2 is really fidgety, even more so than back in SA1/2. On the other hand, you really did some great things with it, creating a stage that really makes use of it, especially the boss. Certain sections of the stage are a lot lamer than other sections. I really loved Valkyrie Cliff (so much so I'd love to see a full stage using that design) and Corrupted Donkey Kong Land was a lot more amusing than the 3 seconds of effort it probably took to make that layout, but Dark Vat Temple and Thunder Fortress were really quite lame, IMO. Also, the emerald in Corrupted Donkey Kong Land is basically impossible to see, even at 1280x800, and I would have never found it if you hadn't provided a FAQ. I suggest using translucent water everywhere, as computers have advanced to the point that the framerate savings simply isn't necessary anymore. Finally, the jokes were actually funny and brought a smile to my face, even as I shot fireballs everywhere during the cutscenes. Bring on volume 2, IMO.

Midnight Pass Zone, Act 2 by KO.T.E - 6/10
This has nice production values and a lot of secrets, but I never really feel rewarded for looking. The hidden ministage was really boring, and the hidden boss was the definition of cheese and not fun at all. The colormap makes it impossible to see what shield I have, and on the Whirlwind Shield makes everything look really horrid. The flower gimmick was neat, but you really didn't use it much. The rising water at the end was also extremely lame if you go right at the fork into the pit, and extremely easy if you go left at the fork. My second attempt I didn't even touch the water at all.
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Old 09-01-2011   #23
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Votes only with stupid, useless comments.

Single Player:

Red House Zone by Ice - 6/10
the best theme transition idea ever

Pipe Towers Zone by Fawfulfan - 8/10
the best mario level ever

Aquatic Temple by Kuba11 - 7/10
the best visuals, and quite a solid map too

Sonic Dumbventure - Volume 1: Donkey Kracken's Disasterous Quest by D00D64 - 9/10
the best everything except some level design

Midnight Pass Zone, Act 2 by KO.T.E - 6/10
the best colormap *cough*


Match:

Siberian Base by akb778 - 4/10
pretty cool for a sub-par stage

SemiRuin Forest Zone by Zipper - 3/10
HOPY SHIT that map is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE

Splice Lab Zone by Fawfulfan - 5/10
hecticity all up in this bitch

Storm Stronghold by Spherallic, Errol, RedEnchilada, and SpiritCrusher - SUPER/SEKRIT
wheeeeeee

Jello Factory by Charybdizs - 7/10
I WARNED YOU ABOUT JELLY BRO

MT_Topangalifts by Brawl - 2/10
ahahahahahahaha oh wow

Rush Jungle by Scizor300, KO.T.E, and Simsmagic - 4/10
all the rushing, all of it


Capture the Flag:

Frantic Forest Zone by ThunderNova - 2/10
FRANTIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC-TIC

Galactic Waterworks by Spherallic - actual/effort
The first stage ever I finished long before voting started, AND the first stage ever on which I spent more time tweaking than creating. Go me! Unfortunately, I completely forgot to playtest afterwards.

Molten Canyon by akb778 - 3/10
no flag-return lava makes me sad

Lethal Filibuster Zone by Fawfulfan - 5/10
DONKEYS vs. ELEPHANTS


Race:

Girder Detour Zone by Fawfulfan - 6/10
pretty good actually
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Old 09-01-2011   #24
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Daww, I'm not at my house right now to try out these maps.

Will play and vote in about two days.
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Old 09-01-2011   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spherallic View Post
Jello Factory by Charybdizs - 7/10
I WARNED YOU ABOUT JELLY BRO
I seem to have forgotten your warnings. What were they again?

Well, I'm going to start working on votes soon, but it'll be a bit before they're all done. Probably a day or two.
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Old 09-02-2011   #26
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Well, I did OLDC feedback through PMs this contest. Fawfulfan told me he wanted my words to him made public so others could read them too, along with a score on 'em. If I'm posting a score and a response for Fawfulfan, I'd like to say a little bit about all the other maps too. Except for the part in spoiler tags, what follows should be my shortest voting post ever.

Red House by Ice - 6/10
Because the map is structured as one giant B-side collection, each idea never lasts long enough to truly immerse the player. On the other hand, that's one of the best jokes I've heard in a long time.

Pipe Towers by Fawfulfan - 8/10
tl;dr -- Fawfulfan's purpose was to make Mario fans feel all warm and fuzzy with the first mature Mario level we're ever seen on these boards. Sadly, I thought this undermined the integrity of the level as a whole because the floaty-in-the-sky room and the blue underground section seemed out of place in the context of the rest of the level, which was an exploration of the traditional daytime Mario first level. The levels in mid-air and underground are a crucial part of traditional Mario games, so Fawfulfan included these segments to address his source material rather than to make a better level. Whether they add or subtract to the level therefore has to do with whether or not the player has extensive knowledge of the source material. I do not, therefore I am not Fawfulfan's target audience.
Spoiler:
Hi! I'm doing OLDC through PMs now. I like having an audience of one and only one.

I really really like your take on Mario levels. I like your Minecraft-esque details on the sides of the rooms and just generally on everything. It must have taken a lot of time to do, but you also must have really enjoyed it.

Just one question: Why did you make this level? No seriously.

As mapping grows beyond a simple "I'm making maps because it's fun," it becomes necessary to start labeling the process of mapping and playing in very concrete, solid ways which at first glance seem like fluffy nonsense. So in the spirit of feedback, please follow me through this. I don't pretend it's totally accurate, and it's not complete; there's still other parts to consider while mapping.

Generally, art gets pieced up into works. Each painting is one work, and everything inside the frame is meant to be taken together as one whole. Music has songs, where each song is meant to be taken together in one listening. Novels are one story, complete from cover to cover. Thus, in SRB2, some amount of cohesive design seems to fit with our already established cultural norms. To make a map which seems fragmented and uncohesive would be subversive in nature because of the established expectation sitting in your head.

In the SRB2 community, we consider each map as a separate canvas. At least I do. In the context of level packs, you could make the case that the canvas is the entire pack, or that the zone is the canvas, but this is the OLDC we're talking about. Maps have to come in standalone, and that's the division we're working with here.

Again the question: Why is this all here?

Because, by putting all of these different sections together into one map, you're implying through your medium that they belong together. Most often, mappers stick with one aesthetic idea and develop it throughout an entire map (or an entire zone) by stretching the idea and reapplying it and casting out that same old lexicon in combinations you had not expected. Ultimately, SRB2 mapping is one giant pot of ideas and, as a mapper, you're trying to give a new idea into the pot.

The Greenflower set actually gives mappers the biggest advantage in this regard. The GFZ set has already been worked in so many different ways already that you can know exactly what has been done. All of the ways you break the mold and subvert people's expectations by creating something original will be clearly defined. The one disadvantage to GFZ maps are that, in order to be an effective map, your map must have something which is clearly and most definitely new and original. In a Sonic game where the texture set implies the level, it's easy to let the texture set itself become your lexicon, where your map becomes simply a product of the theming. I think the better way is to let your map determine your theming and pick the textures which best suit the map you decide to make. However, this may be impossible, because (for me) the level and the texture set come together as one mental image; the two usually cannot be separated.

You have not picked GFZ. You sat down and decided to make a Mario level. That in itself is a subversion, and Mario maps are so unpopular in this community that, in the context of the SRB2 community, you don't have that heavy set of background knowledge about what a Mario-style map is, what it has been, and what it has not been. We do have a good number of Mario maps floating around here, but the theme doesn't get enough attention that any good mappers have really sat down with the theme and defined what it is. You're the first person to give the Mario theme the attention it needs to start building a definition around it, and that's great!

But it's also scary. Because the territory is so under-traveled, I wonder if you set out in purpose to give a broad definition of the theme in a workable, functional way that would make your level the first serious Mario level. I believe the best way to define an idea broadly is to offer a specific definition. By defining the Mario theme as small confined passageways with defined and specific platforming challenges, you would present a more forceful definition than simply offering up a variety pack. And, if you forerun the Mario idea with a specific definition, your own work will hold up as interesting and still relevant as other people begin offering their own specific definitions. It's entirely possible (though unlikely) that Penopat could answer your definition of confined passageways with platforming challenging with a specific definition of expansive landscapes dotted with looming fortresses. Both interpretations of the same basic aesthetic idea would still be valid.

So, again, where are you going with this. Your definite and most concrete direction you're going in the level is with your detail work on the sides and edges of the level. Those frilly ruffles give the map its mature tone and authority, and inside those details you give new weight and new seriousness to old ideas about what a Mario map should be. Inside this map, you have packaged scattered, unrelated ideas about the Mario theme and tried to hold them together inside your detail work.

Was that what you wanted? If it was, then great! But I do believe that you could have done more with the map. Each individual room could have worked out your one idea about the Mario theme in different ways, and you could have done more with your level than bring together scattered archetypes about the Mario theme.

~ ~ ~

You know, part of my understanding of the mapping process is to focus on the author's intent, and I have to guess at this. Obviously, because I'm guessing, I have quite a large possibility to guess wrong. I really don't want to offend you by guessing wrong; I'm just trying to help. Even regardless of my guesses, I still may mistake you for being at a different level of thinking and so present you with a more elevated level of discourse than you can process. I think I'm just going to shut up and hit the "send" button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawfulfan
I really think you should actually just post this as a legitimate vote and give a score.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZero4
May I ask why? Would you prefer it that way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawfulfan
I'd prefer it that way because I think it would help other people. I know I've often found it helpful to look at ratings for other peoples' levels.

Though I also have to say that I don't understand why you find my level's theme to be inconsistent. I consider it to be quite cohesive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZero4
Um, I don't know either. I just went back and played your level again, and I think I'm once more speaking too quickly and without thought.

I think there's a part of this that I've failed to conceptualize. Now we're coming back to that old "Hur hur hur, don't port other games to SRB2" idea. There's a gradient involved, a sliding scale between directly porting ideas from other games and using pieces of the game with barely a glance at the source material. I am not a Mario fan, so I don't know exactly what you've taken and what's your own. To me, the second area (platforming over open-air deathpit) doesn't seem to match the feel of the rest of the level, which is clearly grounded and a little more landscape-y. The blue underground area at the end seems unnecessary to me, again because you're working a day-time on-the-ground-floor level.

Because these two seem out of place to me, I am speculating (and am likely to be completely wrong) that you wanted to include them because of their presence in real Mario games and wanted to try your hand at them, rather than wanting to build a level with the Mario theme with more of a focus on finding your own direction inside your own map. Am I communicating the difference in mindset clearly?

If you understand where I'm coming from, please tell me: Am I wrong, and if so, how much? I ran into this problem about assuming things with Blade last contest, and I want to know now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawfulfan
I don't think you're wrong at all...that's a pretty realistic description of my thoughts on this level. And yes, I'd imagine that you'd appreciate it more if you were a Mario fan...without any prior knowledge or liking for Mario, I'd understand how the underground section felt out of place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZero4
Okay. Well, I think I hurt Blade really badly two months ago, and I didn't want to do that again to you. I'm going to go apologize to him now.

Aquatic Temple by Kuba11 - 8/10
Yeah, Kuba's new, and yeah, his style's underdeveloped, but I enjoyed every second of this map. Except for drowning.

Midnight Pass by KO.T.E. - 7/10
KOTE is great at what he does. He seriously does make good stuff, even though his process isn't terribly flexible.

Sonic Dumbventure by D00D64 - 10/10
Really, all I want is for mappers to think very deliberately about everything they put in their maps. D00D did that, so I can't really ask for anything else.
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Old 09-02-2011   #27
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~~~~~~~~~MATCH~~~~~~~~~

Siberian Base Zone by akb778 (5/10)
This is quite decent, and classic..
but there's some pointless (?) areas such as dead ends,
This is QUITE good for Tag/HS too.

Well I honestly have not much to say, but this map is just a classic standard. :P

MOVING ON...

Semiruin Forest Zone by Zipper (3/10)

You might wanna try putting "Translucent" instead of Opaque water, it's better for this map, trust me.
WOOOOOOOOOOOO Lights underwater without actual.. lightsource... @.@
Rings are a bit.. rare here isn't it? For some reason I like this as RP map better, no offence.

SPLICE LAB Zone by Fawfulfan (5/10)

This is quite good actually. Good texturing, nice choice of brightness..
However, you might wanna put more emerald places, look at the screenshot, woo hoo
3 emeralds in ONE BITE. Overall it's great

STORM STRONGHOLD Zone by Spherallic, Errol, RedEnchilada, and SpiritCrusher (7/10)

OMG THIS IS... INCREDIBLE! Although every map has it's own deathnote... look at the ring's Z. It's... kinda different isn't it? The rightmost one
ANd this map kinda tickles me to RP here as well... It's size and its surroundings are tempting for Roleplays. Maybe because it's built together :P

JELLO FACTORY Zone by Charibdizs (6/10)

Uh... funny starting. Those liquids can be entered by walking/running, but bounces when we jump to it. Interesting.. And we even BOUNCE WHEN WE JUMP INSIDE, wtf..?
Funny... Cool texturing, cool theme picking. I guess this is one of the good maps I voted.

TOPANGA LIFTS Zone by Brawl (3/10)

RINGS GALORE RINGS GALORE!!!! Seriously though, you put too many rings near each other...
And that would make things unfair..... And most of all, most places are... hard to reach and/or too easy to reach for ... stuffs like rings. And I for one, don't find ANY Monitors...
Where did they go?

Rush Jungle Zone Scizor300, KO.T.E, and Simsmagic (4/10)

Ahaha.. this is quite classic as well, however this map doesn't use colormaps for water...
You might wanna try either cyan, or white, or blue(not too deep though). The place is fine, overall. It's... kinda rings galore, but better than TLZ though... This mass-built map isn't as good as the last one, why is it? D: KOTE Where is your colormap?


Screenshots coming in... soon
Spoiler: Problems I found
Go here if you're wondering about some comments of mine :P , ,

Last edited by M[T]P; 09-02-2011 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 09-02-2011   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M[T]P View Post
Although every map has it's own deathnote... look at the ring's Z. It's... kinda different isn't it?
...Que? I have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe a screenshot would help?

also "INCREDIBLE" and yet a 7 wat
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Old 09-02-2011   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
...Que? I have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe a screenshot would help?
Maybe he means height?
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Old 09-02-2011   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
Maybe he means height?
Oh, I just saw the screenshots at the end of his post. Sphere placed those. BLAME HIM
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Old 09-02-2011   #31
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Hehe, My incredible is quite low isn't it. XD

And yeah, that ring's the only one misplaced :P
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Old 09-02-2011   #32
Charybdizs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M[T]P
Uh... funny starting. Those liquids can be entered by walking/running, but bounces when we jump to it. Interesting.. And we even BOUNCE WHEN WE JUMP INSIDE, wtf..?
Of course! That seems to me like the most sensible consistency of Jell-O. I don't know if you've ever seen Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, but the Jell-O in there was sort of what I had in mind as I designed that. From the right approach, it is bouncy and will send you flying, but if you take it slow, you can go right through it. About the jumping inside of it? I didn't have much choice over that, as that is just the way SRB2 works. :>
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Old 09-02-2011   #33
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CTF:

Frantic Forest:

There is no second path to the flag and the level looks a bit boring... :/
Nevertheless, the level is big enough and fun to play.
= 6/10


Galactic Waterworks:

The level is big, looks really good and there is an alternative path to the other base. The underwater part is nice! Only the end of the underwater path could be improved, I think.
= 9/10


Molten Canyon:

The elevators could be improved. To use them, you have to stop and wait - I would have prefered elevators that move up fast if you stand on them, like in the Dark City themed Match map of an older version of SRB2. ;)
It is nice that there are three ways to get out of / into the base, but first I thought the two caves in the base accessible by springs would be paths - just to find out that there is a dead end. :/
The small monitor platform surrounded with lava reminds me of the old Silver Cascade Zone. If you do not hit it, you have a problem.^^

EDIT: There is a bug in this level (Zipper showed it to me):There are red base sectors in the blue base, allowing you to get 15:0 in under 70 seconds. I did not notice this bug when I played the map. I also think that this bug should be no reason for a lower rating; the map itself is nice. In my opinion, the bug should be fixed after the contest voting. It should be easy to fix and there is no reason to keep this bug in the OLDC archive.
= 7/10


Lethal Filibuster:

What's that, a battle of Democrats and Republicans?!
I like the rail on top of the houses; it is a nice place to rail.
The map is too small and there is only one "real" path to the other base. Oh, and the yellow spring in front of the flag room is strong enough to bring you to the flag; you do not need to use the platform above the spring.
= 4/10


Other gametypes will be added to this post.
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Last edited by ToBeFree; 09-03-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 09-02-2011   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFree View Post
Oh, and the yellow spring in front of the flag room is strong enough to bring you to the flag; you do not need to use the platform above the spring.
That's not the point of that platform. The point is that you can drop down on the platform from the side paths for easy access to the base.
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Old 09-02-2011   #35
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Voting time! Single player only because I honestly don't feel like I can say anything worthwhile about MP maps in general. I don't play the gametypes enough to have a good idea of what makes them fun and what doesn't. So here are the score for single player for easy tally:

Red House Zone by Ice - 5/10
Pipe Towers Zone - 8/10
Aquatic Temple - 7/10
Sonic Dumbventure - Volume 1: Donkey Kracken's Disasterous Quest[sic] by D00D64 - 9/10
Midnight Pass Zone Act 2 - 6/10

And here are the reviews. Three are long, two are short.

Spoiler: SP votes
Red House Zone by Ice - 5/10
I realize that this is a bunch of leftovers you strung together (a pretty popular method in this contest, it seems). At least you strung them together in a somewhat coherent way, even if the sudden canyon transition looks pretty awkward and the crumbling sand platform creates an in my opinion undesirable chokepoint between what once were clearly two separate GFZ-themed levels. The individual leftovers, however, aren't particularly exciting. They're competently designed, but I had to fight boredom as I played them.

The beginning (and to a lesser extent, the end) at least has some solid if generic platforming. The very first of what I identified as four segments (GFZ clone 1, GFZ clone 2, house, ACZ clone) also had a nicely complex layout that gave me at least some reason to replay the level. The inside of the house however is an absolute snoozefest: long, flat corridors with self-opening doors, stairways and elevators to make sure I never have to do one thing myself. Every chance you would have had to introduce some action is wasted because springs are everywhere. The best example is the alternate path at the beginning of the house. If it wasn't for the spring, I'd be forced to jump on the table to get to it. That might not sound like much, but it's vastly preferable to a spring that does the job for you. There are about five actual gameplay elements I recognized in the whole house: a button-door combination (which has long ceased to be interesting), a line of spikes (at least something), crushers (also overused in the past to the point of annoyance), gas jets (not very original) and the bookcase segment (the only part of lasting interest in the whole map). All of these are only used once; the rest of the time is spent running. Oh, there's also the boss, but that's just another Egg Mobile.

All of that wouldn't be quite as bad if there were at least some secrets to discover for those that explore. But no, there's a grand total of three shields and one extra life to be found in this level. No invincibility, no speed shoes. I actually looked at the map in DB after I had searched around for ages and couldn't find anything more. I was quite disappointed when I saw that there just wasn't anything else to find. You really need more secrets, otherwise there's not much of a reason for me to come back after I've run through all of the paths once. Then again, it's pretty pointless to hunt for power-ups in a map with no real challenges.

The level sure looks pretty (except for the hideous ACZ/GFZ texture combination at the end), but it's mind-numbingly boring. The only exception is the aforementioned bookcase segment where I need to kill the enemies to get the bookcases to move. The few bits of platforming that were there were also pretty good, but aside from that, your level bored me. A bit like THZ1 and CEZ1 in 2.0 (although a little bit better): Flat, linear, lots of running, little platforming, few secrets.

NOTE: This review was written when my score was still 4. Then I decided that while a lot of the map is pretty boring, I also don't mind running through it to get to the good parts even after repeated playthroughs. So a 5 it is. I didn't bother to change the tone of the review though, so it might sound more negative than my impression really is.

Pipe Towers Zone - 8/10
The positive things are all pretty obvious. The platforming is good and has a sense of purpose. What I mean is that you didn't just put some platforms over a pit and said "Jump!", but you created believable environments to incorporate it. The gimmicks were mostly good except for some things I'll address below. There were quite a lot of secrets to boost replay value, the texturing was good (unlike most Mario levels which overuse the tiny brick texture to the point where it's distracting), there were a few alternate paths etc etc. Everything a good level needs was in there. I don't think I need to explain further.

Now to the problems I had. My personal pet peeve is the pseudo-random sector layout. I understand that breaking up the walls and having protruding sections makes the texturing much easier on the eyes, if only because it gives you a chance to vary your textures, but only because it makes the walls less static. But I think you overdid it to the point where it looks messy. See, I'm perfectly fine when you use this technique on the surrounding walls (in moderation!), but why did you extend it to every single shape there is in the level? Aside from looking totally nonsensical on floating platforms or the edges of pits, it's also potentially dangerous. When there's a pit or something in front of me, I want the edge of the platforming to be clear and well-defined so I know exactly where safe ground ends and pit begins. With pits, I don't just mean death pits but anything you can fall from. Therefore, things like floating platforms or cliffs should have simple shapes, preferably squares or rectangles. That helps the player a lot with "analyzing" the terrain around him and draws attention to the important things. But oh well, everyone else seems like it for reasons that weren't yet mentioned to me.

Now to the gimmicks. As I said, I liked most of them (especially the mushrooms and the thwomp blocks), but there were some problems. The room with the rising water, for instance, is more or less a non-gimmick. Press a button, take a spring, exit the room. You might as well leave out the button and the water and just have floating platforms, and that wouldn't change much. You should use the water either to chase the player while he tries to outrun/outjump it or make use of the physics differences. You did neither, so you more or less wasted the gimmick.

The thwomp blocks, while I liked them, are a bit problematic to use in a 3D setting because you need to stand directly under them to activate them. That's much easier to implement in 2D than in 3D, but I guess it's not much of a problem. If I were to implement it, I'd give the player very little excess space so that he's pretty much forced to stand under them. Maybe it would help to enlarge the textures and just make the blocks bigger. But, again, not much of a problem. The continuously moving platforms must be about the third or fourth time you used that gimmick in this exact same way. And while it's still fun in the context of the level, don't you think it's time you tried something new?

Two final things: Many of the secret corners that had power-ups in them felt too tight. I think this goes well with what Ice said: The space is wide enough for a Mario level, but for Sonic, it's somewhat small. The other thing is that you still can't design a level with multiple paths in mind. All the alternate paths there are feel a bit like afterthoughts (that's because they ARE afterthoughts). I want you to try to design your next single player level, assuming you're gonna make one, with multiple paths from the get-go. Maybe that'll help you in making them feel more natural.

Aquatic Temple - 7/10
Great improvement over your previous work, but there are some things that need sorting out. The most obvious one is the gargoyle room. Unlike most people, I'm not entirely against it, but it has problems. First of all, it's annoying to stop for air while you're pushing a gargoyle. Therefore, you should make sure that the paths between the gargoyles and the pillars are short. This obviously means that the maze has to go, which isn't much of a pity because it was boring anyway. The trap room was enjoyable, but the exit was too narrow (narrowness is a common problem in this map; I'll come back to that later). The room you reach via fans was generally okay, but also had a too narrow exit and the fish were annoying. The room you reach via platforming was also good, but the distance between pillars and gargoyles was too long for my tastes. In essence, you can keep this segment, but make sure everything is wide enough and the pushing distances aren't too long.

Let's come back to the narrowness then. There were a few parts I noticed this in: The waterslide at the very beginning is too jam-packed with obstacles considering how narrow it is, so neither jumping nor sliding can really prevent me from crashing into some pillar. Just make the passage wider and spread out the obstacles a bit more. The same applies to the waterslide in the second room. The green pillars are too close together. The ledge on the other side of the river in that room is also too small. On my first run, I walked through the waterfall and immediately into the river because I didn't anticipate that the ledge would be that small. Likewise, the green pillars on this ledge take up almost all of the already tight space. Again, just making the ledge larger would help.

And then there were a few other issues. The wooden constructions in the "intermission" room after the gargoyle puzzle with the purple walls look awkward, but I can't put my finger on what the problem is. The basin with the waterfall also doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. Why don't you put an item down there? The outdoor room before the last checkpoint is mostly fine, but it degenerates into a bunch of random platforms towards the end. The crusher room is cool, but I'd rather have different textures for the floor details and for the crushers and the floor underneath those. The way it is now, it's a bit hard to tell between safe ground and danger. The waterslide on the other path is also a bit slow. I don't know, maybe it would break it, but you should try making it faster.

But most of these complaints were minor. On the whole, I really enjoyed this. The gimmicks weren't exactly firsts, but you did them well, the secrets were cool (especially the gargoyle puzzle with the token), it looked great (except for the aforementioned purple room, but that doesn't really matter much). Work on the few issues I mentioned and you can become one of this community's most exciting mappers in no time. Good luck!

Sonic Dumbventure - Volume 1: Donkey Kracken's Disasterous Quest[sic] by D00D64 - 9/10
Everything that Red House Zone did wrong, you did it right. Good job. My complaint list is short and consists of small issues. And since I told you about those issues already, I won't repeat it here.

Midnight Pass Zone Act 2 - 6/10
When I said "more platforming", I didn't mean that all your platforming should be the same. Round grassy platforms are fine for a bit, but not in this quantity. The moving platforms are also so slow that they totally kill the flow while I stand around waiting for them. Good visuals (nice springs you have there), some nice secrets and the chase sequence at the end saved it from becoming boring though. Just ditch the excessive use of round platforms and slow elevators and this'll be a lot better. The ending sign is also tucked away in a corner, which I think is pretty anticlimactic.

EDIT: Found the emerald "minigame" and thought it was fucking awful on the whole. First of all, the premise of "oh hey I found something you really need to see, but first get me 50 rings for no reason" and "I was too scared to take the teleporter, but why don't you play cannon fodder for me?" was stupid. Then, the visual effect of the winter elements was lost on the awful colormap which makes gray mush out of everything. Gameplay-wise, the rooms were more basic platforming, but minus any items, which was especially weird because it rendered a lot of the excess terrain pointless. Just by sticking a few power-ups there, you could have made it a lot better. The boss then was the icing on the shit-cake. There's no way in hell I can properly attack a bot that is constantly flying away and shooting at me by running into it. Especially on slippery ice. After two failed attempts, I stopped bothering, so I don't know what else comes after that. Probably the emerald.

Last edited by MascaraSnake; 09-03-2011 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 09-02-2011   #36
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Let me just say, SpiritCrusher, that a water-chase gimmick like the in KO.T.E's Midnight Pass was totally out of the question for PTZ, because you can't drown in Mario mode. Thus slowly-rising water would be a total non-threat (unless I added a damage effect, which wouldn't make sense). And I don't know how you failed to notice, but I did use the underwater physics. Quite apart from the floating platforms ascending to a useful height, the spring wouldn't launch you as far in the air without water.
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Old 09-02-2011   #37
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Yeah, but it really feels out of place in Mario mode, considering it's a pretty nonsensical physics quirk in the Sonic games, never mind in a Mario stage. I also agree that I'd prefer just normal platforming instead of that. What if the switch made the platforms you need move up and after a certain amount of time, move back down again. That's a pretty common gimmick in the Mario games.
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Old 09-02-2011   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawfulfan View Post
And I don't know how you failed to notice, but I did use the underwater physics. Quite apart from the floating platforms ascending to a useful height, the spring wouldn't launch you as far in the air without water.
Yes, but the platforms and the water rise together. If the water didn't rise, the platforms would be lower and therefore you wouldn't need the extra boost from the spring. In the end it all boils down to pressing the button and taking the spring.
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Old 09-02-2011   #39
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Single Player:
Red House Zone by Ice - 7/10
When I first loaded this level up, I thought it was another GFZ clone, as I moved onwards I began to look around at the level's structures and had a fear that this was released in the past, but it seems I was wrong. Anyways, upon reaching the house the game play got a bit bland. That is until I ran into the bookcase room, I love how you did the spinning bookcases there. Moving on I found the GFZ1 boss in a over-sized arena that I quickly beat, after beating it I dashed out to the door.... To find my self in a desert, what? After clearing that part I find RedXVI next to a ruined house and cleared the level. All in all the level was pretty good.

Pipe Towers Zone by Fawfulfan - 10/10
..Okay um, wow. I... I have no clue how to explain this level, it's just so awesome. I spent over 5 mins my first run through looking around at the detail and looking for the hidden items, there is so much stuff in here I am not even sure if I found it all yet. I love how you use the twomp blocks in the underground part, felt like a real Mario level there really. Although, I have one complaint. Why does the pipes not make the sound when you go into them like in the Mario games? I was REALLY looking forward to that, and was disappointed when there was none. Other than that, GREAT job!

Aquatic Temple by Kuba11 - 8/10
Pretty good level, not the best, but surly not the worse! At first, I was expecting a horrid level when I saw that I was staring on a elevator. But that quickly changed when it reached the top, I was blown away by all the detail in the first room. Continuing on I went into the gargoyle puzzle room, I quickly knew what I was meant to do and went off to find myself some of them gargoyle. I had gotten all of the save for the last one, I quickly ran up a path and hit what seemed to be a switch of some sort. Taking no note of it I continued on up the path and got in front of the gargoyle ready to take it down, when I heard a creaking sound. I turned around to find out the door had slid shut and I was trapped in the room, I panicked. I quickly look around and found myself a switch and pressed it, and the countdown song began to play. I made a mad dash to the bubbles and got one before the time hit zero, after recovering from this I went ahead and cleared the puzzle and ran to the exit. Over all, a okay level, I think the gargoyle puzzle should be above water though.

Sonic Dumbventure - Volume 1: Donkey Kracken's Disasterous [sic] Quest by D00D64 - 9/10
I.... Honestly don't know what to think of this. It's good, and at the same time it could be better. The layout of the levels could be a bit better, but you hit the funny stuff right on the head. The boss can be a bit annoying, but it is better than the earlier versions. Anyways, can't wait to see Part 2! That's coming out in 3011 though, right?

Midnight Pass Zone, Act 2 by KO.T.E - N/A
So, it seems that people hate GFZ levels in OLDC. But anyways, not much to say as that I am still trying to balance out the platforming to make it less boring
. Might make a few platforming parts me made more like the second room of the water rise section, I donno.
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Old 09-02-2011   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KO.T.E View Post
Why does the pipes not make the sound when you go into them like in the Mario games? I was REALLY looking forward to that, and was disappointed when there was none.
They used to, but I shot that "feature" down because it got on my nerves. The problem is that Sonic is so fast that you exit the pipe while the sound from entering is still playing. That, and there are just so many pipes that the sound plays all the time.
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