Yet Another 2.1 Update

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I have a question regarding how levels are made. Do you guys make the levels alone, or do you send different revisions of a level between each other and decide on what should stay, and what shouldn't?
That varies from level to level. For example, ERZ2 was pretty much made entirely by Nev3r, while DSZ2 is a compilation of the best parts from multiple attempts by different people.

That's in the Disco Room, which doesn't count.
No, there's also a place like this in the regular part of the level (in the room with the intermittently switching gravity). It's hidden though, so most players will probably not notice it.
 
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That's in the Disco Room, which doesn't count.

I've found this platform with a few life monitors and a speedup box in the gravity switching room. (The first one after pressing the button) I've only ever got there by random chance and never actually got back out of it because I've never really tried to get there since. But yeah, there's definitely something there.
 
The disco room? B)

Though I did actually notice at least one checkpoint spot in ERZ (other than disco room, obviously) with a 1up placed next to them.
 
Maybe not, but it can't hurt. I'm thinking only three lives may be punishingly few for a game like SRB2, with its nonstandard controls, lengthy and difficult levels, and its zone-based saving. I know SRB2 is going for the style of the classic games, but the classics weren't in 3D, and the levels weren't nearly as large.

If Srb2 was NOT in 3d, what point would you have trying to make it? Three lives is a good even number of lives because MOST video games that deal with lives give you three on normal mode. Srb2 used to have modes like Hard, cake walk and stuff but they were removed. The only game types that are in 2.0 are "Normal" and "Ultimate" mode. Ultimate mode still gives you three lives, which is going to be removed in 2.1. Bassicly, Giving five lives to a player is too much of a advantage. That is why you can collect extra lives early in the game. The three lives encourage the player to want to collect lives to be safe in the later zones. Once you collecet all the lives in GFZ, THZ and so on, you could have like 20 extra lives in EGZ. Perhaps if they WERE to add five lives, it would get rid of the objective of collecting lives. That is just my opinion, so do not take everthing from me.

About the 5 lives, if I recall correctly isn't there a spot somewhere in ERZ where you can just keep getting lives because of a few conveniently placed 1up boxes?

Ya there is, which gives the player a HUGE advantage in the final boss. In my opinion, it should be removed or set behind the star post... But whatever.
 
I don't think three lives is too few as a starting value, but I do think there is a slight problem for those that lose late in the game and have to continue, because it can be pretty daunting to try to complete ERZ on just three lives, especially on your first time through the game.

One of the ideas I've been bouncing around to fix this is simply giving the player an extra life for each previous time they've continued, so eventually, if they lose enough, they'll end up with a huge stockpile of lives. The idea would more be to provide motivation to try again, because it would make it clear that eventually you'd succeed through perseverance.
 
I don't think three lives is too few as a starting value, but I do think there is a slight problem for those that lose late in the game and have to continue, because it can be pretty daunting to try to complete ERZ on just three lives, especially on your first time through the game.

One of the ideas I've been bouncing around to fix this is simply giving the player an extra life for each previous time they've continued, so eventually, if they lose enough, they'll end up with a huge stockpile of lives. The idea would more be to provide motivation to try again, because it would make it clear that eventually you'd succeed through perseverance.

Couldn't you at least reset lives to what they where when entering a zone if a continue happened?
 
SRB2 is still pretty damn punishing. ERZ is hard enough on a first playthrough, but then you also have Brak Eggman, which is such an unintuitive boss that you need a walkthrough to know how to beat it.
ERZ is only hard because the lack of zones between RVZ and ERZ, which creates an artificial but real difficulty spike.
Brak Eggman, as it is, is just an example of bad boss design, but said design won't definitively stay for the next versions.

And I can totally see 2D sections in Greenflower Zone, what with these snake tunnels in Green Hill.
 
Eeeeh, I can't see 2D sections happening in Greenflower Zone, not like it needs them really. 2D mode isn't even that great anyway, right?
 
I don't think three lives is too few as a starting value, but I do think there is a slight problem for those that lose late in the game and have to continue, because it can be pretty daunting to try to complete ERZ on just three lives, especially on your first time through the game.

One of the ideas I've been bouncing around to fix this is simply giving the player an extra life for each previous time they've continued, so eventually, if they lose enough, they'll end up with a huge stockpile of lives. The idea would more be to provide motivation to try again, because it would make it clear that eventually you'd succeed through perseverance.

This is BRILLIANT game design and I love it. :D

I'm glad to see you guys are still toiling away and improving the game. I'm looking forward to being able to do a full on proper spotlight/"review" once it's done. You guys deserve more players/traffic. ;)
 
Eeeeh, I can't see 2D sections happening in Greenflower Zone, not like it needs them really. 2D mode isn't even that great anyway, right?
I can see them happening, as zoom tubes aren't restricted to tube graphics, and besides it doesn't need much in order to play the gimmick; just some easy platform sections.

Then again I have no experience whatsoever with actual level design, so my point is really really really moot.
 
The thing is, 2D mode in ERZ is honestly used in an exceptionally simple way. We're essentially using it as an interactive transition for zoom tubes. While ERZ1's is especially simple, whereas ERZ2 has some platforming in one area and a clever miniboss in another, none of the 2D areas are particularly complicated, and for good reason: 2D mode is honestly pretty shitty and doing complicated things with it doesn't tend to work out well.

While there's no technical restriction that prevents us from using 2D mode in stages other than ERZ, just shoehorning a gimmick into a stage because you can leads to terrible level design because you end up doing it to maintain expectations instead of because there's actually a good reason to do it. 2D mode in ERZ is quite good as a change of pace in a stage that's honestly pretty brutal. GFZ doesn't need such things.
 
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That's a good way to see it indeed.

Speaking of level design: how many Knuckles-only paths are there, and will they be for the most part on the same level as Sonic 3 & Knuckles'?
 
They sadly aren't nearly as awesome as they are in S3K, but we've tried to add them to stages that could use some additional variety. It'll be a lot later than 2.1 before they're actually used in enough locations to mimic S3K properly.

I do think that they're quite necessary to make Tails and Knuckles feel more distinct in gameplay, though, so it's a big long-term goal of mine. You'll notice I spent a lot of time on one for Azure Temple, for example.
 
They sadly aren't nearly as awesome as they are in S3K, but we've tried to add them to stages that could use some additional variety. It'll be a lot later than 2.1 before they're actually used in enough locations to mimic S3K properly.

I do think that they're quite necessary to make Tails and Knuckles feel more distinct in gameplay, though, so it's a big long-term goal of mine. You'll notice I spent a lot of time on one for Azure Temple, for example.

I actualy dislike the idea of forcing Knuckles onto another path then the rest. It gets to me that I cannot explore that area of the stage as another person and it makes me feel like I am missing out... I feel as if this idea should be removed, but that is just me.
 
I actualy dislike the idea of forcing Knuckles onto another path then the rest. It gets to me that I cannot explore that area of the stage as another person and it makes me feel like I am missing out... I feel as if this idea should be removed, but that is just me.
I disagree entirely. Exclusive paths are a big part of replay value; that's the main reason I spent so many hours as a kid playing Sonic & Knuckles as opposed to so few in Sonic 2. Without the branching levels, you're just replaying the same thing with a different ability.

EDIT: I should add that I've only beaten Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Tails once. After realizing that nearly nothing was different from Sonic's route, I became uninterested to replay as Tails. I've tried many times since, but I've never felt motivated enough to finish.
 
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Hardly surprising how playing Sonic's routes as Tails would be boring regardless of exclusive paths or not, he's basically easy mode with that flying of his after all.

Now, if it was instead, say, Robo-Hood going through those routes...
 
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