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Old 08-31-2017   #221
glaber
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Originally Posted by SSNTails View Post
Some of the Blue Sphere stages are nausea-inducing with how you have to quickly turn left-right-left-right-left-right in some areas, but I think the difficulty is fine as long as you aren't going for the gold (plus I was always good at these stages).
You should see some of the blue sphere stages in the original Blue Sphere game (Sonic 1 locked on)

Some of them had sections exactly like that.
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Old 09-01-2017   #222
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Not gonna lie, BS was fun for a SS in S3&K but having to play it to unlock content was a bad design choice. Especially because even in S3&K to get all the emeralds you only had to play 14 of them while to get all the unlockables in mania you need to beat 32. If anything it would be cool if you could unlock things in TT like in SRB2.

BS gets tiring after a while, especially if you're like me and stop at every star post just to get them over with. They should have also made it a little more clear that gold medals are only for the achievement and not to unlock more content. For the past 2 days I thought I had to get perfects to unlock stuff when it turns out you just have to beat them.


Actually as a little side note, how do you guys like the new combine ring monitor? Do you think its better here on in KC?
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Old 09-01-2017   #223
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>> MRW everyone hates my positive, not-DRM-focused review on Steam

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Not gonna lie, BS was fun for a SS in S3&K but having to play it to unlock content was a bad design choice. Especially because even in S3&K to get all the emeralds you only had to play 14 of them while to get all the unlockables in mania you need to beat 32. If anything it would be cool if you could unlock things in TT like in SRB2.

BS gets tiring after a while, especially if you're like me and stop at every star post just to get them over with. They should have also made it a little more clear that gold medals are only for the achievement and not to unlock more content. For the past 2 days I thought I had to get perfects to unlock stuff when it turns out you just have to beat them.
Yeah, I was doing perfects at first as well since I figured that probably affected stats for unlocking. Eventually I just decided "dude, I don't have time for this shit" and now I'm just going for silvers. I guess it's not that bad; most of the unlocks are earned pretty early and you don't have to do the whole 32 for the important stuff. I still think I would have preferred something different though.

Quote:
Actually as a little side note, how do you guys like the new combine ring monitor? Do you think its better here on in KC?
It's not as easy to regain all your rings as in Chaotix, but you can potentially farm lives off of it, so I guess it's slightly better?
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Old 09-01-2017   #224
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So, Sonic Mania came out on Steam a few days ago. I've beaten it as Tails (with lots of frustration, particularly during the OOZ boss), Sonic & Tails (with less frustration, knowing how the game plays now and how to do some things in levels), and am halfway through it as Knuckles. That means I no longer have to hide from social media to avoid too many spoilers (as I've been doing since the 15th August, 17 days ago from now). It's... uh, fun enough, I guess? But I would really have liked it to have more new zones and less (preferably none) old zones from other games. It feels a bit more like "Sonic Generations 2D with Tails & Knuckles Edition" than "Sonic & Knuckles' Sequel" to me. As others have pointed out, there are also some engine bugs that I've spotted (one of the weirder ones being flying up into a curved roof/wall as Tails makes you drop down at normal falling speed while still in the flying animation).

Either way... The main gameplay feels good enough, the special stages are a bit too "floaty" for my liking, and the bonus stages... react too quickly to button presses for my taste. Yes, really. I'm used to 0.2-0.4 seconds of input lag in a PlayStation 2 emulator, and then this game comes along and reacts to stuff immediately as soon as I press a button, plus I can also swear the bonus stages react faster to left/right presses than what they were based on (though it's long since I played their origin's game, so I may not remember it right). Oh, and it would be nice in my opinion if the unlockables could be used outside of "no-save" mode.

I wouldn't say "don't play it" to others, but I'm not sure if I'd say "play it", either... except to a friend of mine who I will get to come over and play the game with me at some point. But I'm not sure if I'd tell others to buy the game themselves.



TL;DR: Good enough game in my opinion, but too many old zones from past games (in my opinion), and feels a little clunky some times (in my opinion).
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Old 09-01-2017   #225
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Playing as Sonic, how can you jump out of Tails's arms when you are being carried? The jump button doesn't work like it does in S3&K.. I usually have to wait until Tails drags me into a wall of spikes or lands for me to separate from him.
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Old 09-01-2017   #226
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Playing as Sonic, how can you jump out of Tails's arms when you are being carried? The jump button doesn't work like it does in S3&K.. I usually have to wait until Tails drags me into a wall of spikes or lands for me to separate from him.
No idea apparently you have to land.
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Old 09-01-2017   #227
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Playing as Sonic, how can you jump out of Tails's arms when you are being carried? The jump button doesn't work like it does in S3&K.. I usually have to wait until Tails drags me into a wall of spikes or lands for me to separate from him.
Pressing Down + Jump will let you jump off.
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Old 09-01-2017   #228
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The game finally got his Accolades Trailer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_Sj6GDHHw
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Old 09-02-2017   #229
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Originally Posted by SSNTails View Post
Playing as Sonic, how can you jump out of Tails's arms when you are being carried? The jump button doesn't work like it does in S3&K.. I usually have to wait until Tails drags me into a wall of spikes or lands for me to separate from him.
Down + Jump. I think in Sonic 3 (& Knuckles), you just press up to have Tails fly up, but in Mania, for some reason you press jump to have Tails fly up, and then to drop down, you press down + jump, which is a pretty bad thing if you want to go left or right immediately afterwards. I also believe you get separated if you fly into a completely vertical wall, though that may just be me underestimating the game's engine.
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Old 09-06-2017   #230
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So, things I like about Sonic Mania:

Spoiler:
* Great OST, y'all are jealous of those staccato trumpets
* Everything is beautiful (I don't know how people are having trouble with the FG/BG, I thought Sonic CD was much worse)
* Special stages kick ass
* Controllable AI Tails flight makes Sonic & Tails way more interesting
* New levels are amazing
* Old levels are solidly designed, but they're better with the new gimmicks
* Unlockable abilities and such are nice
* PC has dedicated Super button
* c l a s s i c s o n i c


Things I would have liked to see improved: [some spoilers]
Spoiler:

* I've run into a surprising amount of bugs across multiple playthroughs. Not enough to be super-annoying, but still
* Uneven boss difficulty levels. Octoboss is gay.
* Even with the remixed stuff, the old zones feel a bit too derivative sometimes. I know they have the ingenuity to make all new levels, so it would have been nice to see a completely brand new set of zones instead of the 2:1 ratio we have.
* AI Tails is still fucking noisy
* AI Tails flight could have been mapped to something different. Kind of awkward trying to control two characters with the jump button, especially if I have a fire shield equipped.
* Some cheap hits still persist (although this game is on the whole pretty good about this). Might be more avoidable if the camera was a bit more dynamic. Maybe the shoulder buttons could pan left and right?
* I actually wanted to play more of the special stages, so this game really makes a good argument for Super Emeralds to come back. I also think emeralds is something that S3&K handles definitively better than Mania, since you get that nice midway point to reset the pacing of the game.
* This actually flows into my next point, which is that Super Tails is overkill. Even without flickies, it doesn't feel fair that someone who can fly also gets the immense power of super speed and invincibility, at least not with seven emeralds. This is another balancing point that worked better in S3&K.
* Knuckles paths are awesome, but his campaign in this game feels half-finished. I counted four zones that even branched out for Knuckles, and the rest seem to be unchanged.
* Ending feels super underwhelming for some odd reason
* god damn blue spheres


In spite of all that, this was a real joy to play. Now that the hype has subsided, I'd say that Sonic Mania is about as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles, maybe slightly higher. I'd definitely like to see a sequel if only so that Taxman/Pagoda West could polish the formula and make something even better.
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Old 09-07-2017   #231
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I wish they could finish the Super Sonic sprites. They recycle some of Sonic's sprites like his spinning platform animation for example.
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Old 09-07-2017   #232
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I wish they could finish the Super Sonic sprites. They recycle some of Sonic's sprites like his spinning platform animation for example.
Even if this also happpens in Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Not counting the romhack Sonic 3 Complete), this doesn't bother me. Glad that he finally has a pure looking up animation.
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Old 09-07-2017   #233
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I just watched a good video recently, which brought back something that was hanging in the back of my mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lADUT6MqzP8&t=301s

If anything, Sonic Mania feels like a launch pad for successive classic Sonic games. Partly because of how well it was executed, but unfortunately more because of how much recycled shit there is -- which was probably done to save development time. It seems pretty likely at this point that SEGA is going to use the critical and financial success of the game as incentive to launch Classic Sonic as a new side-series of games separate from their mainline, but I also hope any future classic Sonics won't be pressured to play safe -- completely new campaigns have to be a given, but there also needs to be new twists on the momentum physics gameplay to keep us from just playing the same game, a la Sonic CD, Knuckles Chaotix, and Sonic Adventure 3 (except, y'know, less shitty).

This is also why I'm a little disappointed that we didn't see a return of Amy or Cream, as they both provided neat takes on the classic formula. Just a new character with unique mechanics would be enough to make a new Classic Sonic game worth playing.
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Old 09-08-2017   #234
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Denuvo shenanigans on the PC aside, this was the first time I enjoyed a 2D Sonic game since Sonic Rush Adventure. The speed of Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K's level proportions, and CD's musical vibes, all mix together pretty nicely. Yes please, more of this, SEGA!

For those who might still be on the fence about buying the game, I'll split my thoughts into spoiler tags too.

Spoiler:
The most I felt bad about was the game having 4/12 original zones; a lot less than I expected. Thankfully, however, Act 2 of each revisited stage feel like entirely new levels with the same tropes (and then some) and it's great. For once, I like Green Hill Zone! Act 2 is chock full of new gimmicks and appreciable little touches.

The revisited stage I loved the most was Stardust Speedway. My eyes were wet while going through the second act. Its background and foreground explode with a range of color I can't get around using the word "beautiful" to describe, and the music just puts me on Cloud 9. It's not very often a game gets such a strong emotional response from me.


And the one tiny thing I have to knock on Mania:

Spoiler:
The final ending definitely does not usurp Sonic Rush's final ending for me. In some ways, it's a little underwhelming, or rather, made me feel the same way that I did after completing Sonic CD. Satisfied, but not finding myself thinking about it for very long.

Granted, there isn't a whole lot of story going on in Mania, so I can forgive it for that. At least this time, it was about a new gemstone instead of the master emerald. It feels like Mania breaks a story-telling cycle in the 2D games for a change, which I appreciate. The Hard Boiled Heavies were cool as well.


Sonic Mania was overall a wonderful first-time experience; there is so much love crammed into this game. I've put 14 hours into it and I'm still finding more things to do in it outside of Time Attack. I don't know if I'll get all the medals, since I'm not a big fan of Blue Spheres myself. (Mania's improvements to the mode makes it 30x easier on the eyes, though.)

Can't wait to dive fully into Time Attack, so I can replay the heck out of Press Garden and Stardust Speedway. :^P I keep finding excuses to replay the special stages too, they're a lot of fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
This is also why I'm a little disappointed that we didn't see a return of Amy or Cream, as they both provided neat takes on the classic formula. Just a new character with unique mechanics would be enough to make a new Classic Sonic game worth playing.
Taxman certainly isn't against the idea of adding more characters. He talks about it in this Rolling Stone interview, and gives reasons why more characters weren't added in Mania. (Largest factors being deadlines and scope, I think.) I'm sure if there was a chance to include Amy in a potential sequel, it would happen.

For now, I'm pretty happy with Tails in Mania. All of his new sprites are so adorable, it makes me want to draw fan art of that character for the first time in nearly 10 years. (I draw Blaze so much. :X ) I can't get over how cute and lively his animations are.

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Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
If anything, Sonic Mania feels like a launch pad for successive classic Sonic games. Partly because of how well it was executed, but unfortunately more because of how much recycled shit there is -- which was probably done to save development time.
As said elsewhere, a lot of assets couldn't be reused in their original form, and more assets were made to upgrade the stages' visuals. Entirely new tile sets had to be made for some of the old zones. What's interesting is they had the easiest and fastest time working on original stages in the game, while revisited zones needed more effort. It doesn't sound like the remixed stages were made to save time and budget.

I imagine the CD levels needed the most work, because CD's backgrounds were- well, pretty basic. Not much there you could reuse and it still be on par with everything else around them.
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Last edited by .Luke; 09-08-2017 at 05:54 AM. Reason: A minor typo that slipped by me when I proof-read the preview, whoops.
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Old 09-09-2017   #235
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So after playing the whole game for the first time and getting the normal ending, I have to say I enjoyed it very much, every stage felt bright and fun, and even the rehashes gave me the same feeling of playing it for the first time. Really, the only stage I had an issue with was
Spoiler:
Titanic Monarch Act 2, if only because of how loooong it was. But it eventually becomes somewhat less of a chore on later playthroughs.


I'm still working on finishing the Knuckles experience™ and collecting all those Chaos Emeralds and Medallions, but all in all, I'd say Mania's a pretty solid game. It was worth my $20, at least.
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Old 09-10-2017   #236
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Okay, so now I've 100% Sonic Mania (All Characters, Levels, Chaos Emeralds, Medals, and all that bollocks) I can now reveal my final verdict.

Sonic Mania - One of the best, if not; the best Sonic game I've played for years since the 90's. It's definitely worthy of being a successor and being a launch pad to evolve from the original classics. It can definitely progress onto a sequel in where it can further expand and generate some original concepts in terms of story and level design.

The extras are really fun to play. The "Sonic 2 Competition Mode" is an absolute blast to play, and even with the screen crunch, it doesn't affect the quality of the screen at all. With much more available stages to play, it definitely thrashes Sonic 2 & 3's 2P modes by longshot. Time Attack is great fun as well and adds so much replayability.

The music just blows my ears off my head, and even gives me goosebumps at times. It's so amazing and its very memorable. With some of the remastered tracks having slight or major instrumental and tempo changes, it makes it sound a lot nicer than the originals (Though they were always good as well).

Given the fact that this is a simple story in which the Phantom Ruby manipulates dimensions and sends Sonic & Co. to different parts of the timelines and dimensions (Parts of the story could have been explained better), I will forgive the 70:30 level roster ratio on this one occasion, seeing as the level design and gimmicks are relatively original and the transitions from stages were pretty smooth. The 70:30 level roster ratio for the most part, was my biggest gripe for this game. Though not entirely Christian Whitehead's fault.

The difficulty spike in boss fights can be rather obnoxious at times. You have the Death Egg Robot in GHZ which is a good first challenge and retains that steady flow, but when you get to something like Flying Battery it picks up very quick, and then it calms down until Oil Ocean... Oil Ocean's main boss as Knuckles can fuck right off. It's the only time in this game I've ever got a Game Over, yet on the Egg Reverie boss I only died twice.

Titanic Monarch Act 2 is a major pacebreaker in terms of level design. It's almost as if it's purposely designed to drastically change the gameplay from being a fast paced platformer, to being a "survival in a maze" kind of level. I get vibes from "The Great Maze from Super Smash Bros Brawl's SSE mode", but to a lesser extent.

The ending was a bit underwhelming, and didn't feel like you saved the world entirely. Though theories suggest this ending is how this version of Classic Sonic gets warped into the Modern dimension/timeline where Sonic Forces will then take place.

I think if a sequel to Mania is followed. There needs to be the following:
  • Much higher ratio of original stages. If not that, 100% original stage concepts and throwback stages being unlockables.

    - Even difficulty curve the further you progress in the game.

    - Return of Sonic 3 bonus stages.

    - Online 2P Competition Mode.

    - CobaltBW also mentioned this; but freshen Knuckles' campaign mode. It has so much potential, but kind of felt rushed compared to the main campaign.

    - Better handling in Special Stages. Although I got used to it eventually, it can feel stiff and clunky from time to time.

    - Different button commands for Super transformations and other secondary abilities if implemented, not having to be forced upon to use them.

Overall, it's an amazing experience in which we've waited for a long time, and the series has needed something like this for Sonic's comeback. I like how the game's design focuses on not just only Speed & Platforming, but also revolving around the three characters without breaking the original formula. That to me, is how Classic Sonic should be done. Along with so many features to replay, I'll be playing this for a long time. I will look forward to seeing how it progresses from here onwards.

Final Rating - 9/10
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Old 09-11-2017   #237
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mentions something about super transformations
i like to add on to this. A Button combo to detransform from super just like sonic 3 complete, preferably pressing all jump buttons to revert to normal
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Old 09-11-2017   #238
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i like to add on to this. A Button combo to detransform from super just like sonic 3 complete, preferably pressing all jump buttons to revert to normal
I'd preffer to not have a detransform button. The thing about super transforming is going fast and collecting rings at a constant rate to keep the super transformation on going.
The player has to make the decision whether he/she can make it with the curent ammount of rings and keep it going or not and how to handle with the consequences if the player couldn't keep up with the demand.

Having a dedicated super transform button is a good design choice for a few reasons. First, the player can decide whether he/she wants to use super at all. Some players don't even want to use super as it can render the game ridiculously easy. This allows players to still get all emeralds and play the game normaly without to wory about collecting too many rings and accidently transform into super.
And that is also my second reason: it prevents the player from accidentally transforming into super. Lets say that I have a lot of troubles keeping the ring counter up in certain sections and that I don't want to super transform for that reason but accidentally do so when I tried to avoid getting hit by using an insta shield. Now its a race against time and unless you don't get a shield you are most likely toast if you can't grab a ring after detransforming.

A detransform button however would be pretty gamebreaking for a few reasons. First I could abuse it with shields. Lets say I have collected 50+ rings and I get hit while having a shield. Now I can super transform until I find another shield. Then I can detransform and collect rings again without to worry about losing them. And when the boss appears I can just transform and enjoy my 2,5 minutes of invincibility which are more than enough to defeat the boss.
The second reason would be that you could detransform with a few rings left to get some extra hits and minimizing or removing the possible consequences of transforming alltogether.

Chaos Emeralds are very powerful tool in the Sonic games and thus it is pretty tough getting them so that the player doesn't have it too easy. But even if the player manages to gather all of them he/she still shouldn't have it all too easy. Even if its rather unlikely it is still possible to get them all on your first playthrough since there are a lot of chances to get into special stages throughout the most of the classic Sonic games like Sonic 2, 3&K and even Mania. And even if it isn't your first playthrough you still shouldn't be able to cheese throughout the rest of the game after obtaining all of them by using the above mentioned methods.

With great power comes great responsibility, or how SRB2 says it: With great power comes great ring drain. ;P
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Old 09-11-2017   #239
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I'd preffer to not have a detransform button. The thing about super transforming is going fast and collecting rings at a constant rate to keep the super transformation on going.
The player has to make the decision whether he/she can make it with the curent ammount of rings and keep it going or not and how to handle with the consequences if the player couldn't keep up with the demand.
But it's not always a good thing if you are forced upon to use the transformation once you get 50 rings before you can continue using your character's abilities. Some people want to play the game and want to use the character abilities without constantly needing to transform against their will. Plus it will end up making the game way too easy, and lose the purpose of the original challenge in the first place. Sonic 2 and S3&K both had this problem and Sonic 3 Complete mitigates this. Again, it's a matter of preference, but it shouldn't be forced upon players who don't want to use the forms constantly.

Quote:
A detransform button however would be pretty gamebreaking for a few reasons. First I could abuse it with shields. Lets say I have collected 50+ rings and I get hit while having a shield. Now I can super transform until I find another shield. Then I can detransform and collect rings again without to worry about losing them. And when the boss appears I can just transform and enjoy my 2,5 minutes of invincibility which are more than enough to defeat the boss.
The second reason would be that you could detransform with a few rings left to get some extra hits and minimizing or removing the possible consequences of transforming alltogether.
And this is why a separate button for transformations should be implemented, because it provides them the option to choose whether they want to use the elemental shields, character abilities, or keep transforming back and fourth.

Quote:
Chaos Emeralds are very powerful tool in the Sonic games and thus it is pretty tough getting them so that the player doesn't have it too easy. But even if the player manages to gather all of them he/she still shouldn't have it all too easy. Even if its rather unlikely it is still possible to get them all on your first playthrough since there are a lot of chances to get into special stages throughout the most of the classic Sonic games like Sonic 2, 3&K and even Mania. And even if it isn't your first playthrough you still shouldn't be able to cheese throughout the rest of the game after obtaining all of them by using the above mentioned methods.
I'm not too sure whether to believe this one. I thought while most of the Special Stages were fun to play, they were quite easy on the most part (Apart from 5 because fuck that one) and I got all the emeralds on the first playthrough.

Mania can actually punish you really badly if you try to cheese through the game with certain abilities and mess it up. Particularly in the later zones where the level design revolves around different reaction times and responses to the level layouts, and hazards littered all over the place. Rings and power ups become a lot more scarce, in which after that you have no choice but to use the skills you've learned, and keep your wits on you at all times to get to the end. Levels such as Lava Reef, Metallic Madness, and especially Titanic Monarch Act 2 are good examples where this can be demonstrated.

So yeah, a detransform button would be preferable for a lot of players. How handy or broken will it be, depends on the players and their individual gameplay styles. I for one would love it, along with a separate button for super transformations, so it gives them the option should they want to use it.
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Old 09-11-2017   #240
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-Stuff about wanting a separate button for Super transformation-
Well, the Steam version of the game has you transform by jumping and hitting what by default is W (on keyboard), Y (on X-Input controllers), or Triangle (on PlayStation 4 controllers (though I'm unsure if they're natively supported)), which aren't buttons that allow you to jump, so you have to press a different button to transform super than any button usable for jumping. I think this is also supposed to have come already or come later for consoles, but as I have the Steam version, I don't know much about the console versions.

I do know, though, that you still can't de-Super-ify at will in the Steam version. And I'm probably of the mindset that if you transform Super, you should stay Super until you run out of rings (or clear an act), rather than just when you want to turn back to normal.

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