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Old 04-12-2014   #4081
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Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
I agree with all your other points, but holy shit no it would not, and I don't understand how people keep advocating running on water at all. The only thing that would happen is that it would force you to slow down whenever you want to dive into a body of water, thus plummeting you right back into the slow acceleration state you were striving to avoid. Stages like DSZ would play like complete ass.
That's actually a fair point, I take that back.

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And to the Rosy the Rascal crew: I thought the point was to make good use of Blade's existing sprites by reusing them as a single player character. Maybe I missed the point.
Given the existence of Crispy's Rosy wad, I don't see how it's much different.

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But what I'm certain is that an unlockable Amy would make absolutely no sense from a sales pitch point of view or a game design point of view. I'm pretty sure Amy has never been a part of TUDD in any way nor would it make any sense to randomly unlock such a mundane character as a reward for beating the game.
Mundane? Honestly, Amy's gameplay is the only particular reason I like Sonic Advance. It makes plenty of sense from a thematic/'sales pitch' point of view because Amy was not only a good part of Sonic CD's plot but also appeared in many of the later classic era games, and it makes even more sense from a game design point of view because Amy's gameplay structure in SA legitimately stands out from the rest of the cast.

---------- Post added at 12:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------

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Making use of existing sprites was part of my pitch to begin with.

If we're delving into the area of MP-only characters, the aforementioned Metal Sonic could work. But Katmint's Eggman would be a great choice- it's a lot of fun to play as and play against in netgames. It has it's own advantages and disadvantages. I can't think of a third character other than Amy who'd fit the classic motif of the SRB2, and it's a bit hard to find something to make her unique.
On this, I think something similar to Katmint's Eggman would be good, but with less gadgets for a more streamlined design, and I'd rather see Eggrobo than Eggman, partially because it makes slightly more sense in the campaign mode.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4082
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Look, I know this is a stupidly hard to do request that likely wont be noticed, but listen:
So, remember that one time where you *JUST* missed that jump in Eggrock? Yeah, me too. So, what if you added a feature where you kinda... Caught on to ledges?
It would be pretty simple, and it really only requires one new object (And a bit--- okay, maybe a LOT of hardcoding.) When jumping, your character spawns an object in front of him (her, if female characters are being used) that checks if you are touching a ledge between a side and a floor (Where all the hardcoding comes in) and if it returns true, the character will act like he is being carried by a tails (and even use the same frames, too). So, then, you could add another variable too characters that assign how long they can hold on to the ledge before they let go (in seconds, max 10 I guess). I'm sorry if that sounds like much.

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
I agree with all your other points, but holy shit no it would not, and I don't understand how people keep advocating running on water at all. The only thing that would happen is that it would force you to slow down whenever you want to dive into a body of water, thus plummeting you right back into the slow acceleration state you were striving to avoid. Stages like DSZ would play like complete ass.

And to the Rosy the Rascal crew: I thought the point was to make good use of Blade's existing sprites by reusing them as a single player character. Maybe I missed the point. But what I'm certain is that an unlockable Amy would make absolutely no sense from a sales pitch point of view or a game design point of view. I'm pretty sure Amy has never been a part of TUDD in any way nor would it make any sense to randomly unlock such a mundane character as a reward for beating the game.
As a unlockable character? F that, I meant single player ones. Like, ACTUAL IMMEDIATELY PLAYABLE CHARACTERS.
And running on water is as dumb as F.

Last edited by Phil the hegi; 04-12-2014 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4083
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Originally Posted by Phil the hegi View Post
Look, I know this is a stupidly hard to do request that likely wont be noticed, but listen:
So, remember that one time where you *JUST* missed that jump in Eggrock? Yeah, me too. So, what if you added a feature where you kinda... Caught on to ledges?
It would be pretty simple, and it really only requires one new object (And a bit--- okay, maybe a LOT of hardcoding.) When jumping, your character spawns an object in front of him (her, if female characters are being used) that checks if you are touching a ledge between a side and a floor (Where all the hardcoding comes in) and if it returns true, the character will act like he is being carried by a tails (and even use the same frames, too). So, then, you could add another variable too characters that assign how long they can hold on to the ledge before they let go (in seconds, max 10 I guess). I'm sorry if that sounds like much.
No? That defeats the whole purpose of platforming.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4084
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No? That defeats the whole purpose of platforming.
Like I said, it was just a stupid Idea. I was just recommending it, Though it would be interesting to have it only activate in certain gametypes, like an "Adventure" one, that definitely is NOT A clone of the old adventure gametype.

Last edited by Phil the hegi; 04-12-2014 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4085
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Ledge grabbing already sort of exists. You could easily make an invisible, intangible FOF that you can cling to and put it right under a ledge.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4086
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I know. But level makers be doing lotsa work already, and like I said, IT WAS JUST AN IDEA.
EDIT : Wait no, forget me for coming up with that.

Last edited by Phil the hegi; 04-12-2014 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4087
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I'm all for having Metal Sonic as an unlockable character as well, but there's something important you all missed.

What'd happen if you reach Egg Rock Zone 3 while playing as Metal Sonic?
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Old 04-12-2014   #4088
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Given the existence of Crispy's Rosy wad, I don't see how it's much different.
*cough*

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Mundane? Honestly, Amy's gameplay is the only particular reason I like Sonic Advance. It makes plenty of sense from a thematic/'sales pitch' point of view because Amy was not only a good part of Sonic CD's plot but also appeared in many of the later classic era games, and it makes even more sense from a game design point of view because Amy's gameplay structure in SA legitimately stands out from the rest of the cast.
What I meant is that thematically it doesn't make sense for Amy to be an unlockable character after you're essentially mastered the game. Putting original gameplay aside, it'd be like unlocking Toad after getting all the star coins in a Mario game. Metal Sonic makes much more sense as a reward since he's one of the Big Bads (or more precisely, The Dragon), so being able to play as him would feel a lot more rewarding and be much more sensible than suddenly bringing out a new character who has no bearing whatsoever on the plot. Sonic Advance 2 did that, and look how silly it turned out.

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I'm all for having Metal Sonic as an unlockable character as well, but there's something important you all missed.

What'd happen if you reach Egg Rock Zone 3 while playing as Metal Sonic?
Eggman would show up in a UFO and create a grayscale copy of yourself. You would then fight yourself because you're standing right in front of you, so why not? (It's a video game, why are these things important?)

Last edited by Fred; 04-12-2014 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4089
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That doesn't change the fact that there isn't too much you can do to separate Metal Sonic's gameplay from Sonic's. They'd both just end up being about going fast. I believe Mystic was saying that a 4th character would have to have vastly different gameplay from the other 3 to warrant inclusion.
Not that I would mind playing as Metal Sonic... I like him.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4090
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Well, I could name more than one thing that Sonic Advance 2 did wrong, but...

Maybe the best course of action would be to reward the player for clearing the game with all emeralds with Metal Sonic as a playable character. Amy could either fit in as a default character, or as a reward for getting a certain amount of emblems. Something small of course, like 30.

@Kirblord23: Metal Sonic would be sort of "vanilla", not having any innate special abilities, but having a better jump and a high top speed to make him really mobile. Sonic's mobility is completely horizontal, a better jump alone would be enough to differentiate the two.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4091
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Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
What I meant is that thematically it doesn't make sense for Amy to be an unlockable character after you're essentially mastered the game. Putting original gameplay aside, it'd be like unlocking Toad after getting all the star coins in a Mario game. Metal Sonic makes much more sense as a reward since he's one of the Big Bads (or more precisely, The Dragon), so being able to play as him would feel a lot more rewarding and be much more sensible than suddenly bringing out a new character who has no bearing whatsoever on the plot. Sonic Advance 2 did that, and look how silly it turned out.
Then make her an unlocked-by-default character, like Sonic, Tails and Knuckles! That'd make her just as important to the plot as Knuckles is(seriously, watch the intro - Knuckles just came to help out of nowhere).

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Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Eggman would show up in a UFO and create a grayscale copy of yourself. You would then fight yourself because you're standing right in front of you, so why not? (It's a video game, why are these things important?)
lolsonicthefighters. It'd be pretty damn awesome if that happened. And no, of course it's not actually important, I was just making a joke.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4092
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Are the collectible easter eggs during easter still in the game? If not, you could add them in! I loved that feature.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4093
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Originally Posted by Rex The Kitsune View Post
Are the collectible easter eggs during easter still in the game? If not, you could add them in! I loved that feature.
nominate this shit, my nostalgia demands it
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Old 04-12-2014   #4094
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Then make her an unlocked-by-default character, like Sonic, Tails and Knuckles! That'd make her just as important to the plot as Knuckles is(seriously, watch the intro - Knuckles just came to help out of nowhere).
But then you'd run into the problems that Mystic outlined. If you're going to have more than one character available from the get-go, then they need to have different gameplay or otherwise there's no point in having the choice. Adding a fourth base character would require designing new, sufficiently different gameplay from our current roster, and personally at this point I'd prefer having more levels than more ways to play the same levels.

In my opinion, an unlockable character would get a bit of a handwave in this regard simply due to its status as a bonus; extra content is generally okay even if it doesn't dramatically shuffle up the game mechanics, so long as it's done in moderation and you don't end up with some 30 useless skin choices that don't really add anything. And given Metal Sonic's status as a badass, just being able to play as the character would itself be part of the reward.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4095
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I have one single question for you: How many games from the 1990s feature tutorial levels? I'm pretty sure that because of the fact that SRB2 is based on a lot of older Sonic games, there's no such thing as a "tutorial level". Frankly, the game is all about learning how the mechanics work (Rise of the Triad remake from 2013 comes to mind), not having your hand be held by the game (About 75% of all of the triple-A titles would pop up here).
...way to whine about something that's been in progress since 1999 (1998?). If you want something complete, go play something else, please.
Well first off, in 1991, people use this magnificent book called a MANUAL. If people didn't know what they were doing, they'd read the manual and learn about the controls. Secondly, this is 2014, why are we still trying to base this one sequel to the first sonic fan game ever made for the sake of similarity, streamlining, and nostalgia? Don't you think possibly ONE Modern feature be added? Also, as a suggestion, why hasn't ANYONE thought about implementing less ring-loss? Like Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble. and Shadow? It would make ring collecting challenges much less of a pain. We lose 32 rings when we get hit after collecting more than 32 rings in a level, why don't we just lose that 32? I wish there was an available example of ring collecting to complete the stage like the Sonic Adventure mod or something like that.

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Old 04-12-2014   #4096
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Have anyone ever noticed that knuckles doesn't even appears in the intro? If you cared for him to give him a totally new revamp of sprites, and added more features to him then...... Where's his moment in the intro? When Sonic and Tails talk about going to stop eggman like they always do, you could add "Hey, what about if we bring Knuckle-head with us?" or something thta includes him, or a new history part where eggman obliterates another zone where knukles is. lel it just seems that he just appeared from nowhere.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4097
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Originally Posted by Duon the Adventurer View Post
Well first off, in 1991, people use this magnificent book called a MANUAL. If people didn't know what they were doing, they'd read the manual and learn about the controls. Secondly, this is 2014, why are we still trying to base this one sequel to the first sonic fan game ever made for the sake of similarity, streamlining, and nostalgia? Don't you think possibly ONE Modern feature be added? Also, as a suggestion, why hasn't ANYONE thought about implementing less ring-loss? Like Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble. and Shadow? It would make ring collecting challenges much less of a pain. We lose 32 rings when we get hit after collecting more than 32 rings in a level, why don't we just lose that 32? I wish there was an available example of ring collecting to complete the stage like the Sonic Adventure mod or something like that.
And today, we have this glorious thing called the internet. And an entire wiki devoted to the game.

Less ring loss is useful in a game like Unleashed or Generations, where you're moving too fast to collect dropped rings. SRB2 isn't like that, so there's no reason to reduce the ring loss. As for ring collection challenges, look at the name: challenges. It's supposed to be a challenge. Take advantage of shields, they're in the game for a reason.
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Old 04-12-2014   #4098
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Originally Posted by Duon the Adventurer View Post
Well first off, in 1991, people use this magnificent book called a MANUAL.
Absolutely no good game from pre-1992 required the player to do any reading up in the manual to understand what was happening in the game. It was common practice before the Playstation to design the first levels of the game to gradually introduce the player to all the elements by way of controlled experiments. SRB2 has no need to be any different.

You want SRB2 to have a manual? Ask for a manual.

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Also, as a suggestion, why hasn't ANYONE thought about implementing less ring-loss? Like Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble. and Shadow?
Because none of the mainstream classic Sonics ever did that? And you can complete this entire game without getting hit once if you're good enough. The fact that we even use rings for vitality makes the game easy as it is.

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Have anyone ever noticed that knuckles doesn't even appears in the intro? If you cared for him to give him a totally new revamp of sprites, and added more features to him then...... Where's his moment in the intro? When Sonic and Tails talk about going to stop eggman like they always do, you could add "Hey, what about if we bring Knuckle-head with us?" or something thta includes him, or a new history part where eggman obliterates another zone where knukles is. lel it just seems that he just appeared from nowhere.
The intro hasn't been touched since like 2003. lol
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Old 04-12-2014   #4099
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Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
And today, we have this glorious thing called the internet. And an entire wiki devoted to the game.

Less ring loss is useful in a game like Unleashed or Generations, where you're moving too fast to collect dropped rings. SRB2 isn't like that, so there's no reason to reduce the ring loss. As for ring collection challenges, look at the name: challenges. It's supposed to be a challenge. Take advantage of shields, they're in the game for a reason.
Then make it so all the rings are dropped?
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Old 04-12-2014   #4100
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You want SRB2 to have a manual? Ask for a manual.
For a while SRB2 actually came with a simple manual that explained all the power-ups and stuff, but it was eventually yanked, probably because nobody cared enough to update it.

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The intro hasn't been touched since like 2003. lol
Actually, I'm pretty sure that there was a section of the intro script that mentioned Knuckles and tried to tie him into the plot by referencing Angel Island and the Master Emerald being in jeopardy, but it never got used for some reason.
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