What is bad about Not a Thokfest Zone? A joke level should have a joke name, don't you think?
Match/CTF Level Rotation - 2.1 Public Beta
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Well I guess there is no real problem. The level is as the name says. But I do get the impression that Sonic players would be slowed down if they tried to play as a thok fest, not a spring fest.
The problem here is that a grotto is where I imagine a scared goldfish retreats to. I really don't remember all that much how these levels look, but I'm pretty sure the level is more of a "sprawling set of ancient tunnel ruins" than a "small alcove within a rock". Marine Temple? Something like that.
I think you guys are overthinking this a bit simply because we changed the names at all. The goal in changing the names is to avoid repeating the same word in the names, and as the number of stages in the IWAD grows, obviously we're going to have to come up with words with a few more syllables to use for our stages.
While I think a few of the new names are a bit meh, I think Marine Grotto is actually one of the better ones, but I have no problem with using those words in ordinary speech, so I guess it doesn't bother me as much as those who think of those words using their other definitions.
I don't have a problem with changing them, but the stage name requirements are the following:
While I think a few of the new names are a bit meh, I think Marine Grotto is actually one of the better ones, but I have no problem with using those words in ordinary speech, so I guess it doesn't bother me as much as those who think of those words using their other definitions.
I don't have a problem with changing them, but the stage name requirements are the following:
- No word may be repeated at all.
- No three-letter abbreivations repeat in a gametype, and preferrably overall.
What kind of idiot wouldn't realize that this level doesn't let you thok, especially since the name hints at it?
Marine Temple sounds absolutely fine and would fit both criteria.
The other two names I have a problem with are Overgrown Thicket, simply because the level is neither overgrown nor a thicket, and Nostalgic Pass, because there's nothing nostalgic about it.
Then you've already failed your own requirements. Several times over.
I tried my hand at it. Made a spreadsheet with all the names and added automatic acronym generation and duplicate detection, then proceeded to make sure nothing was red and take care of my own pet peeves. I probably just wasted my entire morning, but I figure that's what you do around these parts.
Anyway, this is the outcome:
And here is the spreadsheet: Link
The only name that I really have issue with on that list is "Tails Raceway" being the name of the map that is 100% thokfest. And "Sonic Raceway" isn't as catchy. Oh, and Icicle Falls being renamed despite the map being a being a Cirno reference, to the point where the map had a 9 ball in it :P
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It's supposed to be a terribly obvious Mario Kart pun.
Certainly isn't my fault that Sonic's sidekick character is actually original...
It was either that or change Sapphire Falls. And I'm not changing Sapphire Falls.
Yeah, I know, Luigi Circuit/Raceway tends to be one of the early courses, but it's clear that Tails stands no chance there whatsoever, being a thokfest through and through.
Well, I'm sure there's some other move name that could be used :P
Oh, and wasn't there already an Aquatic Labyrinth?
Between fighting redundancy in the abbreviations as well as the words used and using names that actually make sense, we'll eventually have to slaughter one sacred cow, and that's giving the ice stages Touhou reference names. Move the 9 ball to Frost Columns or whatever. Icicle Ridge is actually a very good name.
Let's just remove Sonic Circuit. It's universally hated anyway.
Yes, it's the name of two pretty well-received contest entries that also made it into a pretty popular level pack. I know we can't cater to everything, but that name might spark a bit of confusion. Molten Core was also previously used, but that name is nowhere as notorious.
I'd also like to call you out on some of the more arbitrary changes:
- Emerald Coast -> Emerald Beach. ECZ and Coast are both unused, and apparently Emerald Beach is the name of some stage in some official Sonic game.
- Frozen Night -> Snowy Night. Neither Frozen nor FNZ are used elsewhere.
- Not a Thokfest -> Wayward Stream. Not that I have anything against Wayward Stream, but giving a joke map a serious name is not the best idea. Although I have to admit that "thokfest" is a self-referential term and therefore not desirable.
- Tidal Plant? It's not a plant in either sense of the word. I'm more for renaming Cloud Palace, which is much less of a palace. Or rename this to Tidal Temple for Added Alliterative Appeal and cut the "temple" somewhere else.
- Orbital Hangar -> Space Hangar. "Orbital" is much less generic than "space".
- Infernal Cavern -> Inferno Cavern. I can't think of any reason for this.
- Secluded Woodland -> Sacred Grove. Again, no reason why you should change a name that is perfectly fine.
Oh boy!
Emerald Beach is indeed the name of Sonic's stage in Sonic Battle. Emerald Coast however is a much more widely known stage name, being the first stage in Sonic Adventure, and the fact that there's no relation between it and this particular SRB2 map (it used to be GFZ themed, with harmful mud lifted straight from Mudhole Karst) bugs me.
The adjective "frozen", ie. "frozen still" bugs me when applied to a gametype you're supposed to be constantly running in.
The original idea was "Wayward Spring", making a pun between a water spring and the actual, um, springs. But then I thought about how there's really no origin to the water, but didn't want to get rid of "wayward" so I kinda chickened out.
Tidal Pl- Palace got the short end of the stick. It shares "Palace" with Cloud Palace, meaning one of them has to go. I tried Cloud Temple and Cloud Shrine, but those conflict with Clockwork Towers and Conveyor Conflict's badass new name. Tidal Temple shares an acronym with Twisted Terminal. In the end I had to make a choice and decided that the weird tubing all around might mean it's some sort of chemical plant which got washed by the tides, and it revives the name of a stage from 1.0 (which Tidal Palace more or less came to replace.
And I can't stand it. When do you ever hear the word "orbital"? Not "orbit", "orbital". A Space Hangar is also a cool idea when you think about it.
Pet peeve. When I read that stage name I can only think of "that infernal cavern", as in "blasted" or "wretched" or "damned". It actually describes the stage pretty accurately, but I'd like to be able play the game without imagining Dick Dastardly or Shredder's voice in my head.
Dun like the old name. Besides, ridiculous Zelda fan here.
That level suuuuuucked
Another thing. Since this pack was released, the devs in charge have released quite a few new maps.
Match:
Match:
- Eggmatchsion Zone: It's based on a zone in KOTE's personal mod, so I don't know if he wants it included in SRB2, but I would like to see it.
- Storm Stronghold Zone: Debatable, since only one of the creators is a dev, but I personally would give permission to do anything you want with the level. Not sure what Red and Errol would say.
- Sylvan Shrines Zone: This one's a potential candidate if you add an alternate path and fix the problems with the bases.
- Galactic Waterworks Zone: I honestly find this one pretty boring, and last I heard, so does Spherallic. Especially the underwater path brings back bad memories of Lime Forest Zone.
- Cyan Caves Zone: Why wasn't this added in the first place?
- Dread Valley Zone: This should definitely be added.
- Chilly Chasm Zone: Why not?
That could be changed. Blade, KOTE and Spherallic were also recruited because of their excellent multiplayer maps (among other things, probably).
Definitely think we should rename Aquatic Base, though.
I think people will agree my reasoning is compelling. Last thing we want is to be associated with that.
I think people will agree my reasoning is compelling. Last thing we want is to be associated with that.
We just had a discussion about Orbital Hangar in #srb2fun and how it isn't up to snuff compared to the rest of the division. I think Whackjood summarized it best:
[02:33] <Whackjood> heh, I just booted up the MP pack beta to poke around Egg Hangar. and wow, I forgot how amazingly bizzare this map
[02:33] <Whackjood> so many things, that serve to be pretty without thinking about how they function in game
All those moving level elements might look flashy, but they're incredibly distracting. And if you take them away, not much is left of the level. It should probably be removed from the rotation.
[02:33] <Whackjood> heh, I just booted up the MP pack beta to poke around Egg Hangar. and wow, I forgot how amazingly bizzare this map
[02:33] <Whackjood> so many things, that serve to be pretty without thinking about how they function in game
All those moving level elements might look flashy, but they're incredibly distracting. And if you take them away, not much is left of the level. It should probably be removed from the rotation.
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