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Sonic 3D Robo Blast; A working tittle
- Thread starter Sparkz
- Start date
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I just must say that excluding Volcano Valley, those fogs are ugly as sin and ruin the colors of the map. Rusty Ruin looks positively miserable, Green Grove just looks sickly. Maybe tone them down a bit, or find some alternative.
Metal96
Member
I would agree with this 100%. However, I have a suggestion besides lightening up the fog a little: blend the sky image with the fog color at the appropriate density. If you look out on a foggy day (night), you'll notice that the fog blends with the sky. If you edited the sky textures to reflect this, it'll look a lot better.
I'll Begin
🐑✨
Looks wonderful man, but you should probably turn the fog distance and/or densitiy down on some of these stages. GGZ has some real Superman 64-ass shit going on right now. I feel like the textures need more detail too.
Sparkz
Advanced FOFing Concepts
Many of the rings are in place. They don't function quite like the ones in 3D Blast but I'm constantly modifying bits & pieces like that. They may eventually be poly-objects which will let me do way more. At the very least, our heroes should be able to hang from them.
They look like 3D Blast because they are. Using maps & screen shots I reconstructed the tiled runways to 99% accuracy. 100% is completely impossible due to 3D Blast not actually being 3D.
The runways stayed intact until I discovered I could improve frame rate by moving large map components away from each other. This stretched out zoom tubes & made several runways longer. After that I got creative & started stretching things out left & right because they kept improving performance. They added a whole new feel to the game & everything doesn't feel so cramped.
The zones are larger & have a better frame rate with less chance of them crashing the game.
Perfect example... SSZI;
A year ago the map only lasted about 3 minutes before crashing & it was hardly finished. The zone now features a beautifully sloped thok barrier, spring sectors EVERYWHERE, 100% scale reconstruction along X,Y & Z AND finally SSZ has it's retracting floor spikes.
In terms of data the zone is easily 3-4 times larger than it was but by stretching everything out I turned 2-3 minutes of game play into 16 minutes & I'm not done yet:D
The zones are jaw dropping gorgeous because I'm an artist. Trained, educated & experienced I think & work in shape & color.
Speaking of color...
The colors aren't going anywhere. Rusty Ruin just so happens to be my favorite use of the fog color with Spring Stadium & Diamond Dust close seconds. Green Grove, I will agree that the color doesn't do what I want it to do mostly because it's too dark.
I did, however remove the glowing red doorways from RRZ. I never really liked them as color mapping parts of the map create a far denser fog then I ever wanted:/
I couldn't agree more & Such sky flats are already in the works!
You know I take your critiques pretty seriously, I'll Begin. I had to go looking for screen shots of Superman 64 to figure out what you were trying to say. Now that I know, I have to ask; Where in GGZ do you see such half-ass work? Is it in texture, form or that awful green fog nobody likes?
As for the density of fog, I'm not likely to change it. Anywhere. I love the fog & drove myself crazy to make it work.
I couldn't find anything about "fog_distance" on the wiki but it is something that "if exists" would be totally worth looking into.
While I'm here
SPECIAL STAGES!!!
Yeah, I finally discovered how to propel the player through the special stages. Like all answers in the universe, the solution is simple, elegant, and jives with everything else in the game, water slides!!!
The slides will guide the player through clusters of rings & into dangerous obstacles. They'll twist & wind, descend & ascend. The only problem I've ran into so far with this idea is that the flats of fofs don't render once the angle of the slope sector reaches a particular degree. So such water slides may only be so steep but slopey enough to make the whole thing work:D
7 Special Stages to the game. Instead of them being some crude idea of a Tails or Knuckles environment, each one will mimic a zone from the game. They'll feature the flats & textures as well as the water properties of the zones. That's right Volcano Valley's Special Stage (VVZSS) will have you riding currents of my special made & ridiculously dangerous magma. All I can say is; Don't loose the elemental shield provided at the beginning of the stage (which I will try desperately to take from you)
I wanna thank everybody for the ideas. Keep um coming! I apologize for not being able to entertain every suggestion.
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You just had three people, the majority of all commenters, tell you the fog needs to be changed.
And yet you brush it off with "I'm not likely to change it. Anywhere", and go so far as to call your levels "jaw droppingly gorgeous". I tell no lie, those colormaps in Rusty Ruin and Green Grove make the stages jaw droppingly repulsive, no exaggeration involved. How many more people is it going to take for you to realize that? As that level creator, you have the final say in what stays and what goes, but assuming you are designing for the player and not for yourself, you'd be a fool to not value our opinions.
The original Rusty Ruin has a lot of greens and greys and blues. That color combination gives a very distinct feel to the level, because it emphasizes the fact that the ruins are ancient, and overgrown by nature. Purple is only used in one part (and only in the Genesis version), and that is on the rims of the pots and the pillars, as ancient markings. It is an accent, and that is okay. In using purple as the fog color for your level, it negatively impacts the feel the textures give the level, and makes a clash. Purple fog in general implies toxicity, evil, or any manner of hazardous thing. With it, your level looks more reminiscent of Chemical Plant than of Rusty Ruin.
Wait, that was intentional? That was so bad I assumed it was REDWALL or some other visual bug.
Where did you get your education?
Charybdizs said:
Metal96 said:
I'll Begin said:
And yet you brush it off with "I'm not likely to change it. Anywhere", and go so far as to call your levels "jaw droppingly gorgeous". I tell no lie, those colormaps in Rusty Ruin and Green Grove make the stages jaw droppingly repulsive, no exaggeration involved. How many more people is it going to take for you to realize that? As that level creator, you have the final say in what stays and what goes, but assuming you are designing for the player and not for yourself, you'd be a fool to not value our opinions.
The original Rusty Ruin has a lot of greens and greys and blues. That color combination gives a very distinct feel to the level, because it emphasizes the fact that the ruins are ancient, and overgrown by nature. Purple is only used in one part (and only in the Genesis version), and that is on the rims of the pots and the pillars, as ancient markings. It is an accent, and that is okay. In using purple as the fog color for your level, it negatively impacts the feel the textures give the level, and makes a clash. Purple fog in general implies toxicity, evil, or any manner of hazardous thing. With it, your level looks more reminiscent of Chemical Plant than of Rusty Ruin.
Sparkz said:
Wait, that was intentional? That was so bad I assumed it was REDWALL or some other visual bug.
Sparkz said:
Where did you get your education?
I'll Begin
🐑✨
Charybdizs has beaten me to the punch but here's what I have to say.
Now hold on just a moment. Just because you worked hard on it doesn't mean it's finished. It's too fucking thick and it completely ruins the atmosphere. It looks ridiculous. Multiple people have said this. Obviously you're doing something wrong, so try actually taking criticism instead of just saying you do.
So if you're not going to take my criticism purely because you don't want to,
As for the textures, they work fine in vanilla SRB2, but this isn't vanilla SRB2. You're employing a different style of level design, so the graphics should be more faithful to the source material.
Considering I mentioned fog several times, I was obviously talking about the fog.
Now hold on just a moment. Just because you worked hard on it doesn't mean it's finished. It's too fucking thick and it completely ruins the atmosphere. It looks ridiculous. Multiple people have said this. Obviously you're doing something wrong, so try actually taking criticism instead of just saying you do.
So if you're not going to take my criticism purely because you don't want to,
then I would recommend that you don't make such pretentious displays as this.
As for the textures, they work fine in vanilla SRB2, but this isn't vanilla SRB2. You're employing a different style of level design, so the graphics should be more faithful to the source material.
Sparkz
Advanced FOFing Concepts
First of all, check your math. 8 comments since I posted the renovations. 3 of which had comments about fog. You also took Metal96's 100% statement out of context.
Lets say, that negativity in my fogs did have the popular vote in the forum. There's people outside of Computerland that appreciate the stuff I've put together & the way that I have done so.
You are 1 of 2 truly dissatisfied opinions about my fog. These 2 opinions are comin' at me from the other side of the world. How seriously am I really supposed to take them?
Uh... Yeah. So?
It's not really a brush off. If my design leads me to change something, I'll change it & I just don't see that happening soon with my fog.
First off, I don't know anything about your lying habits & I'm hardly going to take you at your word.
Secondly, "jaw dropping repulsive" is not a factual statement that can be refuted. You can't lie about it. So that makes it your opinion. "repulsive" is a word used to express disgust. This reduces your no-lie critique into little more than a petty insult.
A fool not to value your opinion? & exactly who is giving this opinion? There is a great difference between valuing an opinion & simply doing what someone suggests. I'm not changing something because you would take me for a fool otherwise.
You ask how many people it's going to take for me to see things the same way you do? You have to put a railroad spike through my head for me to see things the way you do.
Yeah, I saw all that too.
I have already established that this mod is going to have a different feel from the original that was replicated 3 times. If you want to play original 3D Blast, there are plenty of choices to pick from.
So let me get this straight; I'm building this mod that I just get a kick out of but I got this 1 opinion from the other side of the world. With sarcasm, insult, misinformation & malice, this faceless opinion tells me my fog sucks...
Let me tell you just how much I care...
Which bring me to my next point;
let me refer you to the first thing I ever said upon arriving here.
This is a pet- project. It's something I come to when I want a break from the other stuff I'm doing. I'm not getting paid to do & I'm in no rush to Finnish. I'm building for my gratification & if people around the world get a kick out of it, that's fantastic. However,I came here to ask technical questions, not to get into an argument about color theory.
It would be impossible for me to build a mod that is 100% awesome for 100% of people. This makes you a statistic. An opinion that I un-regrettably choose to ignore. Your critique is 0% helpful or constructive. You bash my aesthetics without any real advice or solutions. This means you're just bitching for the sake of it. You're sarcastic & insulting and I will engage you no further.
I knew you were talking about fog. I was simply asking a follow-up question.
I know it's not done but the fact I worked hard on it means I'm in no rush to change things. The day may come when some new textures or other aesthetics prompts me to change the atmosphere. Until then the fog will remain, subject to all the tinkering & modification as everything else. Why you're getting so bent out of shape about it, I have no clue. AGAIN, huge difference between taking criticism & just doing what someone tells me to do. No, I'm not obviously doing something wrong, as negative feedback about fog is a fraction of the opinions I'm actually getting. This includes fog-specific opinions. Maybe, instead of me doing something wrong, your not looking at it right.
I chose purple for a few reasons. First because it was an underplayed color in the original zone & I wanted to see more of it, much more. Secondly I use purple to directly contrast the green pools. This means the colors are not supposed to match or dance gracefully in harmony. It's a hard & high contrast making the pools glow. There are other ways to do it. Ways I've yet to explore. However, my Color theory is sound & my design is solid. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.
You can abandon what you know about original 3D Blast as I haven't' aimed for a pure reconstruction since the mods earliest days. There are 3-4 different reincarnations of 3D Blast & all of them are essentially the same. This is something new with a life & heartbeat of it's own.
Saying I think & work in color & shape is hardly a pretentious display. I take great pride in what I do & everything that goes into it. Not doing what you ask hardly nulls my skills or invalidates what I do with those skills.
Again, you critique my textures.Not as belittling as before but still without any real advice. You speak of being faithful to source material. If by this you mean original 3D Blast, I will do no such thing. Those textures are simple in shape & color and simply wont work. I know because I've tried. My current textures would never work in vanilla SRB2. They have entirely too many colors & many of them are are way bigger than vanilla can handle.
It's clear that were not communicating here, so let me ask; What would you have me do with them? I'm constantly changing them trying to find the right fit & anything constructive anyone has to say will be taken into great consideration.
I do take criticism & I take it well. There is a massive difference between constructive criticism; Telling someone what's wrong & what can be done...
NOTE: Non- hostile, polite & respective. Here I can ask questions & launch a dialog to resolve issues,
...and nonconstructive, self righteous bitching...
NOTE: There is no conversation to be had here. My only option is to insult or ignore.
I, of course welcome ALL information but please take the whiny nonsense elsewhere.
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I'll just quickly post here to say that I agree with the issues other people have with the fog, it's either too dark, too dense, or just a completely unfitting or ugly looking colour. Sometimes it seems to be a mixture of them. The only one I think needs no changes from that post was the one from VVZI, which has a fitting colour, isn't too dense and isn't too dark.
Puppyfaic
Member
I don't like making my posts long, nor do I have the patience to do so. I'll admit I skimmed over most of what you were saying so if I missed a valid point somewhere, point me to it.
What I'm seeing here is your lack of being able to take a negative opinion and use it constructively. People complain about your oh-so-precious fog and you simply go "deal with it", completely ignore them, and decide to move on with a cold shoulder. Bad Sparkz. Bad. What you SHOULD be doing is thinking. "Hmm, it seems like some people are upset with my design choices. How can I take their complaints in a constructive way?". Even I will admit, those fogs are outright hideous. The concept is nice, but executed terribly. If you're going delve into designing levels, you should know people will want to play your levels. As such, you need to be able to please those that are interested, even if it means doing something you had not ever intended. Not to mention you sound like a righteous bitch, prancing on and on about "My designs are flawless! My levels are jaw-droppingly gorgeous! My theories and arguments are all sound and professional!". Praising yourself like that? Not a very attractive thing.
What I'm seeing here is your lack of being able to take a negative opinion and use it constructively. People complain about your oh-so-precious fog and you simply go "deal with it", completely ignore them, and decide to move on with a cold shoulder. Bad Sparkz. Bad. What you SHOULD be doing is thinking. "Hmm, it seems like some people are upset with my design choices. How can I take their complaints in a constructive way?". Even I will admit, those fogs are outright hideous. The concept is nice, but executed terribly. If you're going delve into designing levels, you should know people will want to play your levels. As such, you need to be able to please those that are interested, even if it means doing something you had not ever intended. Not to mention you sound like a righteous bitch, prancing on and on about "My designs are flawless! My levels are jaw-droppingly gorgeous! My theories and arguments are all sound and professional!". Praising yourself like that? Not a very attractive thing.
Fixed.Sparkz said:
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"omg this is cool" doesn't really count, so there goes that point
"Look what I made, mom and dad!"
The fogs look terrible and they detract from both the clarity and the visuals of the map.
"I love these colors so therefore I don't care about what you say."
Your opinion is just as valid as his. Stop strawmanning.
"It doesn't matter how many people think this is garbage, I don't and won't change it, no matter who the target audience for my product is."
You value your opinion over your audience, good job completely mishandling criticism for a product.
You don't need to point it out. It's already been well established you don't care.
If you're here to have your ego stroked and avoid all criticism, this isn't the place. I think you might be more at home at the Skybase if you want that.
Suggesting to change the color, toning the fog down a bit, and perhaps even removing it entirely doesn't count as helpful or constructive criticism?
Color me shocked.
Pot and the kettle.
Those opinions are pretty worthless when they're just saying "omg so cool."
Maybe it was underplayed for a good reason?
I don't think you know what contrast means. This might help you a bit.
"I believe it is perfect, therefore it is."
Ego-stroking is not criticism. Learn the difference.
Your style of dealing with criticism is not encouraged nor welcomed here. I think leaving and playing with the Skybase folk would be a better idea.
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Wow, someone can't take honest-to-God criticism. The fog looks horrible, everything else looks fine. I don't see a REASON for fog in the first place ANYWAYS to be honest.
Steelie
Haunted by a couple big mistakes
Dude, you can't be serious. Those people are criticizing for a reason, for a damn good reason even. And what do you do? You turn down their opinions and look like nothing has ever happened! You should value those opinions and try to improve and go along everyone's tastes, not only yours.
Oh, and if you wanna hear an opinion from me, yes, the fog is hideous. Don't argue, 50% of the MB told it to you already. :V
Oh, and if you wanna hear an opinion from me, yes, the fog is hideous. Don't argue, 50% of the MB told it to you already. :V
"If you don't like my mod, go and play the original. That's obviously the best possible way to treat the people that might play my pack!"
Instead of completely and blatantly telling a possible player to not play your map because you're too *whatever* to change one little thing that honestly needs changing for the better, then you'll never get anywhere in the design/gaming industry. Never turn a person away from your work just because you can't take their advice.
rocky
Kay
Ok, the fog is definitely not a plus on your mod. But come on, If most people say that the fog is wrong in your levels, the least you can do is check what's wrong.
On MB, you have to be able to take criticism, nobody will pat your back and tell you that you should release it how YOU like it.
Try to respond well to criticism, don't start turning down the people that actually criticize your mod so that you, as a designer, can make a progress and grow as a person. I'm not the best person to be telling you this, but it's the truth.
On MB, you have to be able to take criticism, nobody will pat your back and tell you that you should release it how YOU like it.
Try to respond well to criticism, don't start turning down the people that actually criticize your mod so that you, as a designer, can make a progress and grow as a person. I'm not the best person to be telling you this, but it's the truth.
Going to go off on a bit of a tangent here and say that you can turn fog on and off at your leisure when in OpenGL, you can even adjust the density. This does also affect the fog in the water as well, but some people prefer clear water compared to the colormaps SRB2 uses.
I'm currently a god. Trained, educated and experienced, too. I think and work with the fabric of time and space, and you can't verify this statement any more than we can verify yours. Pretending you have credentials on the internet just makes you look arrogant and pretentious, and that attitude is not acceptable here.
The attitude contained in this statement is so blatantly unacceptable I'd have to have a railroad spike through my head for me to comprehend why you thought you were allowed to post such things on the SRB2MB.
So the people on this forum come in here to give you their honest opinion of your work, and you blow them off and call them malicious?
The previous two quotes are completely contradictory. The whole reason this topic has blown up is because you clearly can't take constructive criticism at all.
Yep, you said it. Hence, your topic has been locked, because clearly the conversation can't continue without both parties. We only allow topics in editing where the author is actually engaging in a dialog with the people on the forums.
Then I guess you won't mind this topic being locked.
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