Big Switch to OpenGL Exclusive?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nor were they in any sense "good". Only a tiny handful of really old games were good; there were thousands that sucked much worse than anything you would see today. It's just that on those rare occasions that a game was good, it was really good.
 
Games weren't easy in the "good old days". Far from it.
Yeah...they were insanely tough. Gigantic square hitboxes that stretch outside of your the sprites was a big part of the problem. A lot of the time there was just overall bad design. Lots of times bugs/glitches would cause cheap deaths. Also, they were just generally difficult. Megaman, Ninja Gaiden, and Duck Tales, to name a few.
 
.....outside of allowing more support for those cold, soulless walking statues you call MD2s.
Don't blame the models, if SRB2 didn't have the damn poly-limit there would be SO much more I could do. I respect your opinions D00D64, but how come everytime you talk about the community effort you got to trash models? They take time and effort just like anything else.
Sorry I got off topic, reading that I just had to say something.
Anyway, loops could be a very valid thing to put in SRB2, like others said, launching the player up to a higher location is good enough for me.
Just because we add them, doesn't mean everyone has to change things to implement them. Of course the main game should use them at some point...
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry; it's not the polygon limit that really is doing it. There is something to well-made hand-drawn sprites that is absent from even the most advanced models in games today. That something is quite frankly absent from even the quite excellent 3D model of classic Sonic that SEGA is using in Generations, and even without our engine limitations there would be no way to get around that in SRB2. I find games like Muramasa and Valkyrie Profile to be far prettier than their 3D contemporaries, and it's almost entirely because of their usage of extremely well-made sprites instead of 3D models.
 
Don't be sorry Mystic, your saying exactly what I needed to hear. What I meant by the poly-limit thing is I could add extra muzzles and faces to be used as emotions and expressions. Which is what I thought was the problem. Its a relief to know that its just a problem with sprites vs. models. Rather than something I'm doing wrong.
 
You have got to be kidding me, your animations are crap. In my honest opinion they look horrible. I have no idea how you going to say yours are more "exaggerated" when you barely move them from the starting pose. Your running animations have his legs going through his head, his feet are constantly moving through each other, his walk/run frames look like a fat jogger. Everything looks rushed and your classic sonic is not even the right size.
I'm sorry I got so off topic, but I just could not believe you said that.
 
Don't blame the models, if SRB2 didn't have the damn poly-limit there would be SO much more I could do. I respect your opinions D00D64, but how come everytime you talk about the community effort you got to trash models? They take time and effort just like anything else.

Effort =/= good

MD2s are completely soulless; the animations are stiff and sometimes choppy, faces never change, and it feels out of place in a game based off Doom. Models look and feel like something from the Atari Jaguar or something. I'd much rather have my well drawn and animated sprites, for while they are pixelated and in a 3D enviorment, at least I get some sense of character out of them, and not the feeling that I'm controlling a mindless puppet.
 
There's also the fact that the sprites actually look natural in the environment they're in, whereas models stick out and look awful as a result.
 
Effort =/= good

MD2s are completely soulless; the animations are stiff and sometimes choppy, faces never change, and it feels out of place in a game based off Doom. Models look and feel like something from the Atari Jaguar or something. I'd much rather have my well drawn and animated sprites, for while they are pixelated and in a 3D enviorment, at least I get some sense of character out of them, and not the feeling that I'm controlling a mindless puppet.

I'd be willing to fix anything with animations if possible. As for the faces I am currently working on that, turning out great so far.

However I can't change your opinions, I can argue my own but it's what you prefer, I don't care either way, I just prefer models to sprites, and would like to allow others like me use them. I would never force them on anyone or expect them to like them.

All I'm asking is to not compare making models to the effortlessness of the community, because like I said, it does take time and effort.

Also, adding 3D flowers and everything else makes the characters seem less out of place. But again, that's just my opinion.
 
I'm sorry; it's not the polygon limit that really is doing it. There is something to well-made hand-drawn sprites that is absent from even the most advanced models in games today. That something is quite frankly absent from even the quite excellent 3D model of classic Sonic that SEGA is using in Generations, and even without our engine limitations there would be no way to get around that in SRB2. I find games like Muramasa and Valkyrie Profile to be far prettier than their 3D contemporaries, and it's almost entirely because of their usage of extremely well-made sprites instead of 3D models.

Yeah, you're not just being a nostalgiafag or anything.
 
Yes. It clearly has everything to do with my nostalgia for older games and has nothing to do with the way smooth, hand-drawn animation frequently can express things that 3D models can't.

Your statement essentially is like saying that 3D animated movies like Toy Story are just better than traditionally animated movies. I'm sorry, but they both have their ups and downs and things they can do better than the other method. Same thing with sprites and models.
 
Effort =/= good

MD2s are completely soulless; the animations are stiff and sometimes choppy, faces never change, and it feels out of place in a game based off Doom. Models look and feel like something from the Atari Jaguar or something. I'd much rather have my well drawn and animated sprites, for while they are pixelated and in a 3D enviorment, at least I get some sense of character out of them, and not the feeling that I'm controlling a mindless puppet.
woah, shots fired. I may be missing something, but was there any need to totally bash MD2s?

I apologize for jumping in, because there is something I'd like to add to this.

I think loops would be cool, although they don't seem like they would fit in with the normal levels, they don't HAVE to be in them, do they? They can just be for map makers.

Sent from my XT1021 using Tapatalk
 
Loops will not be in SRB2 anytime soon. This is because in order to prevent complaining, someone has to make over 16 different rotation angles for one sprite.... add that by the other 300, and SRB2 will never have loops.
 
woah, shots fired. I may be missing something, but was there any need to totally bash MD2s?

I apologize for jumping in, because there is something I'd like to add to this.

I think loops would be cool, although they don't seem like they would fit in with the normal levels, they don't HAVE to be in them, do they? They can just be for map makers.

Sent from my XT1021 using Tapatalk

If you read the post dates in this thread, all of the discussion here in this thread took place over 4 years ago. Furthermore, a good chunk of it doesn't even apply anymore - v2.1 includes skyboxes in both renderers, and slopes for the software renderer have been made and tested but not released to the public yet.

As for loops though... apart from sprite problems, loops are a wonky thing to support in 3D Sonic games anyway. It's either give the player complete control (and freedom to fall off stupidly easily), or force the player to go along them making them effectively cutscenes. They worked in the 2D games, sure, but they just don't translate well when you add a 3rd dimension to the mix.
 
Seems like nobody even knows, but 2.1 will be released when CEZ is finished, and CEZ is almost finished at this moment.

but 2.1 will be released when CEZ is finished

and CEZ is almost finished at this moment.

Date of post: June 16, 2011.

:V

But yeah, on the subject of OpenGL and slopes and the future: It's already known that version 2.2 is going to feature slopes and levels are already being modified to fit them with some, however last I heard OpenGL does not support slopes yet. So is OpenGL gonna get cut or is adding slope support to it in the list of "things to do before releasing 2.2"?
 
So is OpenGL gonna get cut or is adding slope support to it in the list of "things to do before releasing 2.2"?

Considering the one person that was the driving force behind making OpenGL actually work decently was kicked off the development team, I'd say it'll either get removed or remain a barely working husk ... kind of like OpenGL back in early 2.0 days.
 
woah, shots fired. I may be missing something, but was there any need to totally bash MD2s?

Last I checked, MD2s don't have feelings.

If they do have feelings, then they're hidden behind that blank, emotionless gaze D00D64 was talking about.
 
If you read the post dates in this thread, all of the discussion here in this thread took place over 4 years ago. Furthermore, a good chunk of it doesn't even apply anymore - v2.1 includes skyboxes in both renderers, and slopes for the software renderer have been made and tested but not released to the public yet.

As for loops though... apart from sprite problems, loops are a wonky thing to support in 3D Sonic games anyway. It's either give the player complete control (and freedom to fall off stupidly easily), or force the player to go along them making them effectively cutscenes. They worked in the 2D games, sure, but they just don't translate well when you add a 3rd dimension to the mix.
yeah, I just realized that last night haha. I suppose it wasn't really my place to say anything, either. So I apologize ^.^

Sent from my XT1021 using Tapatalk
 
犬夜叉;771975 said:
Considering the one person that was the driving force behind making OpenGL actually work decently was kicked off the development team, I'd say it'll either get removed or remain a barely working husk ... kind of like OpenGL back in early 2.0 days.
I wouldn't mind OpenGL being removed if Software performed halfway decently on Windows 7+ computers...the extremely wobbly camera with chasecam on in Software mode kills it for me. It's impossible to get a good focus on gameplay when everything around you is shaking.

Also, gr_filtermode Nearest_Mipmap is awesome. Makes the game look a ton better than Software could ever put out (at this point).

What ever happened to the FPS cap removal thing anyways? That was glorious.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who is viewing this thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Back
Top