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Old 05-22-2012   #121
742mph
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That's what I was trying to convince D00D of in my previous post.
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Old 05-22-2012   #122
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I know that. But if you post just to tell somebody to stop arguing, you're continuing the argument instead of stopping it. So here's where it ends. Don't reply to this post.
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Old 05-22-2012   #123
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I... I really want to help in some way with this project, but I'm not good at mapping or spriting/drawing. I have what I personally think are good songs for zones stuck in my head, but every music maker I've looked up seems far too complex and overwhelming for me to look at for more than a few seconds. Does anyone know of a simple, newbie-friendly music program so I can contribute to this project?
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Old 05-22-2012   #124
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Quote:
Spoiler: Zany Ziggurat Act 3: Egg Blazer

This boss resembles the Sea Egg in that it moves around below the surface of a liquid and occasionally pops up to attack. Unlike the Sea Egg, however, it requires an Elemental Shield to protect itself from the lava it is submerged in a lot of the time. That shield must be lowered in order for the Egg Blazer to attack. After the attack finishes, but before the shield is raised and Eggman dives back down, is your chance to counterattack. Or you can be brave and try to hit him while he's attacking, but that requires a considerable amount of skill to accomplish without getting hurt. Beware of his bombs that cause the platforms to temporarily collapse into the lava, though. They can be a bit tough to avoid.

(NOTE: The lava in the arena is opaque for a reason: the player shouldn't be able to see how Eggman really moves around between the waypoints. Please don't change it, mappers.)


This is not going to end well.

Object Slots: 410-429
State Slots: 2126-2270
Sprite Slot: F026

Download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/69m1j4
I seriously have a problem with the attacks of the bosses here.
All I really see is shield and projectile spam following each other again and again. Instead of it shooting an unending supply of fire at one person, ruining coop games completely, why not give the boss attacks that threaten the whole stage and use the terrain against the player instead? It'd make for a much memorable and less cheap experience in the long run. I'd also advise to do something about the anticlimactic explosions from the bombs. As well as making the explosions more interesting, I'd suggest making them stay in the air longer to give the player time to react, and making the platform they hit catch flames (similar to Marble Zone's platforms) instead of randomly sinking. Shields can also be done Ice Cap mini boss style, Sonic bosses should NEVER be totally invulnerable at any point (unless they're unreachable or something).

BUGS: In coop, there's a teleporter at the top once you beat the boss that kills tails players, and the start points are left in the lava when the platforms rise, killing everyone who died after that point and taking away their chances of safely respawning.
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Old 05-22-2012   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman404 View Post
I seriously have a problem with the attacks of the bosses here.
All I really see is shield and projectile spam following each other again and again. Instead of it shooting an unending supply of fire at one person, ruining coop games completely, why not give the boss attacks that threaten the whole stage and use the terrain against the player instead? It'd make for a much memorable and less cheap experience in the long run. I'd also advise to do something about the anticlimactic explosions from the bombs. As well as making the explosions more interesting, I'd suggest making them stay in the air longer to give the player time to react, and making the platform they hit catch flames (similar to Marble Zone's platforms) instead of randomly sinking. Shields can also be done Ice Cap mini boss style, Sonic bosses should NEVER be totally invulnerable at any point (unless they're unreachable or something).

BUGS: In coop, there's a teleporter at the top once you beat the boss that kills tails players, and the start points are left in the lava when the platforms rise, killing everyone who died after that point and taking away their chances of safely respawning.
I'm surprised that you have such a huge problem with attacks that are directly aimed at the player (of which the boss only has two, one of which is used only in pinch mode). Pretty much every SRB2 boss in existence does things like that. This boss has plenty of attacks that "threaten the whole stage", such as the bombs and spinning flame jet attack, as well. As for the explosions from the bombs, you had no way of knowing this, but making them larger winds up appearing rather odd because of the required sprite offsets making it look like the explosions are clipping through the platforms. And is there really a difference between making them catch fire and sink? They both make the space the platform either occupies or occupied temporarily damaging to the player, not to mention that making them catch fire would require hundreds of A_SpawnObjectRelative states. Perhaps I will make the bombs stay in the air longer, but it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to dodge them for the boss of zone 5 of 7.

As for the bugs you reported, I was unable to reproduce the first one, and the only way I can think of to remedy the second one is to make the player starts several hundred fracunits above the platforms normally. Perhaps there could be a hole placed in the ceiling that the player fell through at the end of Act 2?
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Old 05-22-2012   #126
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Originally Posted by 742mph View Post
Pretty much every SRB2 boss in existence does things like that.
Everybody is doing it, so it's okay!1

Time to start setting trends, man.
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Old 05-22-2012   #127
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Little edit of the regular eggmobile to make an eggmobile... honey... laser... thing. Whatever. (and it's in palette... yaaaaay)

Spoiler:
Phase 1 (8-6 hits left)
Eggman will be just high enough you you can't hit him, and hitting the honey part would make you bounce off. (if possible)
He'll drop brak eggman goop that would halve your speed rather than stop you and fly around.
Attack 1 Vulnerable: Eggman will lower himself and drop honey covered bombs that would act like grenade rings, but would stick to you until you spindash. (Yes, sticky-bombs)
Attack 2 Not vulnerable: Eggman will hover over you and fire a honey laser at you a split-second after he stops chasing you. (Sky Sanctuary warp charge sound effect please)

Phase 2 (5-2 hits left)
Attack 1 Vulnerable: Eggman will lower himself and shoot honey lasers in your general direction.
Attack 2 Not vulnerable: Same as attack 2 phase 1.

Pinch Mode (1 hit left)
Eggman will flood the entire arena with honey. (Same as water, just slows you down a bit more)
He'll shoot lasers at places in your general direction. (There will be a red warning beam before it hits)
Attack Vulnerable: Starts charging a laser, then drops down to shoot you at the right height. If you don't finish him he'll hit you no matter what and will restart the phase.

It feels like one of those ideas where the boss dances around half the time, so there could be higher ledges you can get to so it isn't that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 742mph View Post
Perhaps. As I said, the Egg Blazer still has some indirect attacks, but a couple of them that aim right at you can't hurt. And it's not just that everyone is doing it that tells me it's okay, but that I've barely heard anybody complain about them.
Just get rid of the shield entirely and altering the attacks would make it a pretty average boss.
Keeping the shield is modern Sonic boss syndrome (Old modern Sonic?), it dances around for a while and then lets you attack it.
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Last edited by filio; 05-22-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 05-22-2012   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'll Begin View Post
Everybody is doing it, so it's okay!1

Time to start setting trends, man.
Perhaps. As I said, the Egg Blazer still has some indirect attacks, but a couple of them that aim right at you can't hurt. And it's not just that everyone is doing it that tells me it's okay, but that I've barely heard anybody complain about them.
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Old 05-22-2012   #129
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Idea for a ZZZ badnik, based on the dinosaur and Piranha Plant things posted a while back. You be the judge whether or not it should be used, or if it can be SOC'd or not.

DINOSEAR BLAST
Appearance: A black and orange (because that is a neat color combination) dinosaur head attached to a tank of gasoline by a tube. (click for image) While idle, its head is resting on the ground, but lifts upwards upon sight of the player.

Behavior: This badnik is completely stationary, anchored to the ground. When it sees the player, it charges up, and launches a large, homing fireball (comprised of multiple chained fireballs) towards him/her. It takes time to recharge and repeats. The fire will disintegrate after ten seconds, and, of course, would not be able to follow the player into water.

After the badnik is defeated, the gasoline tank stays behind for a short while, and then explodes.

This badnik should be used in more open areas of the stage to avoid player frustration, perhaps perched on small outcroppings on the walls?
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Old 05-23-2012   #130
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Spoiler:


Here's a WIP of GGZ1, and yes it may look familiar.
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Old 05-23-2012   #131
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I would like to point this out before too many more textures are thrown up for the level. But I honestly think the textures you want to use in steam engine have too much detail, and would clash with the rest of SRB2's textures. Then again, what do I know, seeing that I used Sonic Heroes textures before.
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Old 05-23-2012   #132
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Charybdizs, Tyler, Bluewarrior, and to all of the people making music for this collab, what programs/soundpacks are you using? I've been a long time musician, but haven't tried much composing with instruments other than piano. I'd like to try to experiment/compose some pieces for this collab, but I have no "SRB2 style" sound fonts. Any help would be appreciated. I have FL Studio installed (still new at it though), so I can use any sound packs that would work with that. I'm also willing to try any other music programs you guys are using, if you think they'd be useful.
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Old 05-23-2012   #133
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I use FL (of course,) FM8, Massive, DVS Guitar (FREE), and Guitar Rig 5.

All except FL and DVS are demos.
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Old 05-23-2012   #134
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again, I've just been using Reason recently; although I have some outdated midi software and a vsti of Yamaha S-YXG50, which is very close to the software used to make most of SRB2's oggs.
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Old 05-23-2012   #135
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@Tyler Where do you guys get your instrument packs from? Or wait...I just found about all the synths in FL studio. Is that what you use?

@Bluewarrior Hm, I'll see if I can find that vsti or something similar. Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2012   #136
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No, Google them.

EDIT: To add more content to this post, FM8, Massive, and Guitar Rig 5 are all made by Native Instruments. They have a website.
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Old 05-24-2012   #137
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I'm going to say right now I think we should actually announce what songs we are making, because this is getting sort of ridiculous with everyone posting duplicate songs, sometimes forsaking mastering in order to seemingly pump out as much as possible. Few of the songs here are in any quality to be featured in this product. Not that they're bad musically, but they're bad sound-wise. No one has any excuse, there are plenty of freeware and open source programs out there that let you use more advanced sounds. Heck, even the demo version of FL studio would let you remaster your MIDI to something acceptable in one sitting. It's easy.

So how about we actually do some official claiming? And while we're at it, lets lay down some guidelines on what the songs actually need to do. Might as well refresh our memories on what the stages are actually about.

Songs that can be made are:

Gravity Garden 1 - Unclaimed

Not sure what the substantial difference will be between these acts, so I can describe them in one go. The levels themselves are biospheres, artificial environments within a satellite. The music has to represent the freedom, natural, uplifting nature of the biomes within, while having the overlaying feeling of it all being someting artificial. Not in a bad way, as this is a beautiful place, but more of a "wonder of technology" sort of feel.

Gravity Garden 2 - Unclaimed

As said above, these levels are just an expansion of ideas, so music will not need any substantial mood change.

Cloudy Domain 1 - Unclaimed

Will this be the tower act? I'm not quite sure. I'll assume it is. The music here needs to represent a few things. Sky, of course, the feeling of freedom and openness. But this is also a tower. Am I wrong in assuming this is some ancient tower built by the olden people? It should carry a sort of holy, reverent feel to it. Like any good temple theme. I mentioned this song before, a composition of mine. This might not be quite ideal, but it's a good picture of the general mood.

Cloudy Domain 2 - EvilEnternity

This one has been done. EvilEnternity did a fantastic job on catching the high flying, ambient feel. I'm currently doing a final remaster of his song, because the original was MIDI. Boinciel offered a nice alternative, but I'd prefer to touch this one up with some dynamics and better sounds.

Cryonic City 1 - Unclaimed

Haven't heard any mention of these two yet. The first act will be in a frozen city. Not sure if that means abandoned or simply wintertime. That alone could warrant some serious mood changes in the music. Obviously, the music should be of a chilling, urban sort. If the level is abandoned, it would be necessary to portray the lonely feeling. I opt more for a city that still functions, as it is more original.

Cryonic City 2 - Unclaimed

Based off of Blade's Frost Factory, this song would be an issue of blending the ice level music and the industrial sort of song. Never been my forte, (see Snowcap Nimbus) but I wouldn't put it past any of you.

Zany Ziggurat 1 - Unclaimed

The first act taking place in a sort of swamp jungle leading up to ruins, this song would call, most importantly, for a sense of adventure. I'm quite partial to this song, moodwise. How much the musician chooses to focus on the jungle and swamp aspects is really up to them. Even being a swamp stage, I think the music should be more cheery then downbeat. Also, worth mentioning, I think the level will take place at that time of late day when the sky is yellow.

Zany Ziggurat 2 - Unclaimed

Here's where things get a bit more intense. You're inside ancient Mayan ruins, and every footstep could be your doom. Sand pours about inside here, mixing with the lava eating away the lower reaches of it. It's a quiet yet oppressive atmosphere. Yet, the sense of adventure should still wring throughout it. Who doesn't have fun exploring treacherous ruins?

Honeyhive 1 - EvilEnternity

This one isn't a beehive theme so much as it is an outside the beehive theme. This being the level I'm gonna make, the first act takes place in a wonderland-esque forest outside the forest hive. Perhaps a few ABSOLUTELY TRASHED town segments. What else happens when robotic bees spray rivers of sticky yellow honey all over the landscape? It tends to destroy things. But no need to explain it any more. EvilEnternity already made a great song, though again, the quality is quite poor. I'm going to remaster this one too when the time comes.

Honeyhive 2 - Charybdizs

More sinister than the first. You're in the heart of the problem. Honey flows everywhere, the place is teeming with larvae, and deadly drones lurk in the pits. I'm making this one by all means.

Haunted House 1 - MonsterIestyn

MonsterIestyn already has this one and the next under production. The first act, a sinister dark mountain forest leading up to the abandoned castle. Even though this is already covered, I must link this song, because it inspired me about this stage when I heard it. Except, a bit creepier than the one MonsterIestyn has planned.

Haunted House 2 - MonsterIestyn

Covered by MonsterIestyn even better than he covered the first. A creepy, dark, foreboding theme. Perfect for a silent castle with only death for company.

Steam Engine 1 - Unclaimed

This one is a tricky one. What is steampunk music, exactly? Does it needsto be sort of a mix of classical orchestral and industrial, quite like what you find in Jamestown? Or does it need to be modeled after some sort of older music, like the music from the 1920's and 30's? Obviously with an industrial side, though.

Steam Engine 2 - Unclaimed

Not quite sure what the difference between acts 1 and 2 are. All I can say is, these two themes need to be epic and orchestral. They are final zone themes, anyways, aren't they? I kind of just assumed Steam Engine Zone would take final place.

Boss Theme - Unclaimed

Nuff said. It'd be nice if we could get something in the style of the Genesis Sonic games, though.

Final Zone - Unclaimed

Seeing as we don't know and don't care about the final boss at this point, let's leave this one untouched.

Title Theme

What is the title, anyways? I guess we can decide later.


And Ultimate, to answer your question. I use FL Studio, though a number of the other DAWs out there are pretty nice, and probably better alternatives. I bought the full version of FL though, so I'm well off in that regard. As for sounds, that's a tricky one. I just have a large collection of sounds I've collected from over the years. Things that I've found, bought, and such. A few free resources I can mention are the Titanic GM soundfont, Squidfont Orchestral, Kik Arse Bass Soundfont, and... I dunno, just download lots of VSTi's and try them. Some suck, but some are absolute keepers.
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Old 05-24-2012   #138
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I'd like to try making Zany Ziggurat Act 2's music. That one sounds fun to make. And maybe Steam Engine Act 1.
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Old 05-24-2012   #139
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So, after a bit of discussion on #srb2fun regarding Haunted House Zone's name and what it should be changed to, currently Eerie Fortress Zone seems the best alternative name.

What do the rest of you think?
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Old 05-24-2012   #140
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I am completely behind that name myself. Also, I started work on act 3 of said zone, but it's still way too early to reveal much at the moment.
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