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Old 05-13-2012   #21
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I like the idea of having a final zone. But it'd be even better if there was some progression before reaching the final boss, like some platforming, or even an in-game cutscene, or a full act. It depends though.
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Old 05-13-2012   #22
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Originally Posted by 742mph View Post
Here is the link to a prototype final or near-final boss that Whackjood requested I post here.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/rgazbv
This boss has a case of modern-sonic-boss syndrome, what I mean by this is that when he attacks, you can't do shit about it, and he's invincible until he decides that he isn't. The classic final boss always exposed themselves while they were attacking, it's a huge difference to watching the boss dance around and having it dictate when your allowed to hit him. Sonic Rush did a terrible job at this, and this boss reminds me exactly of that.

Example of boss that dances around while you stand far away, safe, and bored.

Example of a boss that can almost always be hit, but is risky

Example 2

Granted, the boss you made has a logical reason as to why I can't hit him, but I'd rather be able to jump into the shield when he's trying to regenerate rather than stand next to him as distraction.
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Old 05-13-2012   #23
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Firstly, it's extremely unclear how to damage it, while there's a reliable method for doing so you do a very poor job at conveying it. The player needs more feedback in game to know that dodging the bosses attacks by staying as far away as possible isn't the correct way of dealing with things.
Any suggestions relating to how I could convey it? I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly am not sure how the player would figure it out if not by simply seeing the pattern after the boss attacks enough times. Maybe the boss should dash away after it attacks like it wants to get away from you?

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Also, because the player is encouraged to stay near the boss to do damage, the player needs warning as to what attack is coming up next before it begins. This is fine when the boss is going to fire the THZ turret because of the audio cue from the charging noise, but the other attacks come out without warning.
I suppose each attack should have a different charging sound. Perhaps the turretfire should have its current sound effect, the direct-fire energy spheres should have the S3&K charging sound, the rotary-fire spheres should have the Spark Mortar charging sound from Mystic Realm, and the final pinch attack should have all three at once.

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The pinch phase is unreasonable and cheap rather than difficult as well. The attack where you are shrunk is fine imo, but the combination of rapid fire missiles and THZ turret spam in the second attack is absurd. Also, the method used to damage the boss during the pinch phase is too difficult, even for what is intended to be a final boss.
In the case of the combination attack, the faster turretfire should probably be replaced with the slower variety (if you didn't notice, there are three types of turretfire, each with a different speed). Perhaps, for the damaging method, the boss should wait a couple of seconds after the thrown shield explodes to generate a new one, widening the vulnerability period.

I have to ask, though, where the boss would fit in the level pack if not at the very end. It doesn't seem like it would fit at the end of Haunted House or Steam Engine. If Dyson Egg's full act is included, it could be used as the miniboss of that, although from what you're saying, Whackjood, it won't be. Even if a place could be found for it, though, I'm not sure it would function that well. The boss's difficulty and overall pattern were designed around the idea of it being the final boss, and it would have to be dramatically altered to the point where it would be easier just to make a new boss if it was downgraded too heavily. Any ideas, Whackjood?
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Old 05-13-2012   #24
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Originally Posted by 742mph View Post
I have to ask, though, where the boss would fit in the level pack if not at the very end. It doesn't seem like it would fit at the end of Haunted House or Steam Engine.
With new art assets to fit the theme, it might fit in Steam Engine Zone. Firing missiles instead of shields and what not. I'd hate to see anything salvagable go to waste after all, but the boss still needs some serious reworking before it can be included for the sake of being playable.
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Old 05-13-2012   #25
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With new art assets to fit the theme, it might fit in Steam Engine Zone. Firing missiles instead of shields and what not. I'd hate to see anything salvagable go to waste after all, but the boss still needs some serious reworking before it can be included for the sake of being playable.
I suppose it could work well there if it was modified heavily enough, but for now I'll just focus on creating the boss of ZZZ and developing an idea I have for the boss of HHZ (Haunted House, not Honey Hive). The boss may be salvagable, but I still doubt that it would play the role you've given it very well simply because of the general way it was built. Plus, I still can't think of a way to convey to the player that the boss only performs sequential attacks when they're close to it. D: I'll give it a shot, though.

Also, did you recieve my most recent PM about a possible way to better incorporate the story into the gameplay? I haven't gotten a reply yet.
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Last edited by 742mph; 05-13-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 05-13-2012   #26
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So, I had a concept idea for Gravity Garden's boss.

Those of you who have played Sonic Triple Trouble may remember the final boss, the Egg Chamber MK3. This boss is based off it, and here's how it would work.

--Egg Chamber MK4--

Eggman would be in a tower that is in the middle of the arena, moving up and down at a high speed. While this is going on, turrets on the sides would be shooting at the player. After awhile Eggman will stop and allow the player to hit him, if they are on the right level. To get to the right level, They would have to use the pipes on the side of the arena to flip gravity, much like DEZ's boss in Sonic & Knuckles. When you hit Eggman he will start moving again, but if you don't hit him soon enough he'll start moving again.

After 4-6 hits he'll go into his Panic phase, where he will start using slow homing shots instead of the normal shots. These shots will die off if the player can avid them for long enough, maybe 5 to 15 seconds? and he will wait even longer to stop spinning. When you beat Eggman he will escape from the top of the tube, and the capsule would come up from inside. Stepping on it will trap the player inside, and launch them back to earth as the act clear screen comes up.

----

This may be too hard for a first boss, but I figured I'd throw it out here anyways.
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Old 05-14-2012   #27
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Let's try to keep the final boss out of space, guys. Just saying.
Here's my idea for the setting of the final boss, then;

Egg Core Zone
This would just start off as a first act, like a follow up to Steam Engine Zone.
There would be parts where you have to run away from the collapsing machinery and explosions.
I would like it if this act was mostly outrunning the factory getting destroyed rather than it being a hardcore level.
I would like it if there was no victory tune for completing the level as well.

I really don't have much of an idea for the final boss though. Any idea I get is usually not that good/original or not good enough for a FINAL boss. -.-'

For Gravity Garden, I would think that the Egg Chamber MK4 idea is good, but allow the player to hit Dr. Robotnik all the time while he's moving in the tower. When he gets to pinch mode I think it should it should be made so gravity changes rapidly without you doing so yourself.

[/terriblesuggestionpost]
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Old 05-14-2012   #28
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After a discussion on irc about how a boss for Gravity Garden would work, I went ahead and expanded on one of the ideas presented there.

Gravity Garden Boss - Egg Skater
It's a giant Pond Skater, with Eggman sitting in the cockpit where the head would be.

Using the reverse gravity water gimmick in act 2 of Gravity Garden, the pond skater would be skating on the upsidedown water above the player while dropping bombs, similar to a skim.

For the first 6 hits, the player would need to climb up floating platforms to reach the boss and attack it. The platforms should fall after the player jumps on them, but respawn fairly quickly, if the player is quick they should be able to get in 2 hits when they reach the top. While the player is doing this, the Egg Skater will try to align itself above the player and drop bombs. The bombs only damage with direct contact, which seems approrpiate for a first zone boss considering that the player will also be doing platforming to reach it.

During the pinch phase, gravity reverses and the player lands in the water. Repeating the climb, but now having to contend with floaty water physics and a drowning timer on top of the bombs. The pinch phase won't last long enough for the drowning timer to be a particularly big threat, but if the player is running out of the time the highest platform should be close enough to the waters surface to briefly jump out.
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Old 05-14-2012   #29
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That sounds incredibly entertaining and quite original. Shall someone soc it for us?
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Old 05-14-2012   #30
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I tried out simsmagics gimmick, and I found it VERY appealing. Even more appealing than haunted house's gimmiks! Whackjood, please put that gimmick in the level, as it's good for beginners, and seasoned players can do various things to make it harder, such as:
*Doing it backwards
*Strafing through
*skipping holes

I want to see GGZ even MORE now! :D
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Old 05-14-2012   #31
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Originally Posted by Knux576 View Post
Whackjood Charybdizs, please put that gimmick in the level
I already did. He might have too, I don't know. :p

You'll see in a short matter of time.


EvilEnternity3000,

I'm not sure what I think of your music. Many times, it's good, but other times it's downright unmemorable. You're trying your best to capture the themes, and that's admirable. I think I can speak for the project when I say we won't be using your themes directly (especially as I believe we were going to be using some FM synthesizer like VOPM, for example), but don't be discouraged. I'm certainly going to take some inspiration from your songs, because they have much good in them. I'd be curious to hear more. Have you thought of taking a stab at Heavenly Tower? That would likely be the first one I choose to do. That or Honeyhive.
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Old 05-14-2012   #32
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Charyb, some people in IRC sort of forced me to make the FM Synthesizer themes a separate music wad option, whether they be original or from other genesis games.
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Old 05-14-2012   #33
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Charyb, some people in IRC sort of forced me to make the FM Synthesizer themes a separate music wad option, whether they be original or from other genesis games.
I just want to bring this up... What? What am I reading here? As much as I love Mega Drive music, we can make use of some fantastic music that goes up and beyond of those limitations. I can't really object if this goes into a seperate music wad though.

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I tried out simsmagics gimmick, and I found it VERY appealing. Even more appealing than haunted house's gimmiks! Whackjood, please put that gimmick in the level
Way ahead of you, I haven't built the section where it will be included in the level yet, but I know what exactly I'm going to use it for.
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Old 05-14-2012   #34
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I guess I should post here. Anyway I'm going to be reworking a map I started last year and turning it into GGZ act 1... Which is the first level. No pressure. My goal of the map is to make it feel massive while once in a while reminding the player where he or she is. Because in the end, no matter how real it feels, it's all just artificial.
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Old 05-14-2012   #35
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So question: why do we have Honeyhive (HH) and Haunted House (another HH)? While Haunted House is a pretty uninspired name, I think Honeyhive needs a second word.
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Old 05-14-2012   #36
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Gravity Garden Zone act 1: Zap610
I read it fine thanks.
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Old 05-14-2012   #37
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While Haunted House is a pretty uninspired name, I think Honeyhive needs a second word.
Beehive Zone?</lamesuggestion>
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Old 05-14-2012   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knux576 View Post
But... charyb had it last time I read it! What happened to his name? -_-
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I'm not exactly claiming Gravity Garden Act 1. I'm just making two rooms, both of which use Simsmagic's gimmick in different ways. I might do more after that, but I have a bit of my heart set on working on Honeyhive Zone more than anything else. So if anyone else has their heart set on working on Gravity Garden, that's perfectly okay.
That's what happened.
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Old 05-14-2012   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charybdizs View Post
[...]
I think I can speak for the project when I say we won't be using your themes directly (especially as I believe we were going to be using some FM synthesizer like VOPM, for example
[...]
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Charyb, some people in IRC sort of forced me to make the FM Synthesizer themes a separate music wad option, whether they be original or from other genesis games.
...Okay, seriously, how many people are actually agreeing to this Genesis-ified soundtrack anyway? As much as Genesis music can be good, why force it on all of us just because you personally want it?

There's no way I'd be able to join in with the music if the idea of using some FM Synth such as VOPM does become truly "official", being someone who's stuck with MIDIs and Soundfonts for MP3-ization. And that's bad, considering I'm the one who's already gone and prepared music beforehand for Haunted House Zone. =/
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Old 05-14-2012   #40
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You sound a tad sore over that, MonsterIestyn, don't take it so personally, we weren't trying to exclude you or anything. I had just seen it put forth that the soundtrack was going to be FM, and you guys never really gave any objections when it was mentioned.

It's news to me that anyone was not for it, but honestly, I'm fine with it.

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being someone who's stuck with MIDIs and Soundfonts for MP3-ization.
Why are you stuck with MIDIs?
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