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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #21
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Originally Posted by Monster Iestyn View Post
In truth, SMS is pretty dated as a character now anyway, come to think of it. Especially since 2.1 now allows us to script new abilities for custom characters using the Lua scripting language. If you've tried out the most recent versions of Shadow and Silver, or perhaps the original character Dirk the husky, you'll find they all have unique abilities to make their gameplay different and interesting: Shadow can sort of teleport-thok in any direction, Silver can use telekinesis, and Dirk can make platforms of ice for him to climb up with.

SMS, on the other hand, has none of those: all he ever was was a more powerful clone (or some bizarre alternative form) of Sonic himself. He probably wouldn't cut it anymore in this day and age.
I understand that SMS is dated and lacking in unique abilities, which is why if anyone ever chooses to update him, they should add something to make him more unique and maybe improve the spritework.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #22
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Originally Posted by Soulman Model CE View Post
I understand that SMS is dated and lacking in unique abilities, which is why if anyone ever chooses to update him, they should add something to make him more unique and maybe improve the spritework.
The thing is, if you wanted to do something unique, you’d be way better off just making something entirely new instead of editing the definition of unoriginal. “Unique” and “SMS” just don’t belong in the same sentence.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #23
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Plus the fact that SMS is someone else's Sonic fan character in the first place.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #24
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The thing is, if you wanted to do something unique, you’d be way better off just making something entirely new instead of editing the definition of unoriginal. “Unique” and “SMS” just don’t belong in the same sentence.
People here really seem to love to hate SMS. Now that I think about it, HMS was (intentionally) made to be even more unoriginal (and overpowered), being mostly based on SMS to begin with, so HMS being the "definition of unoriginal" would probably make more sense... Also, not everyone is skilled at making sprites from scratch, able to create custom lua or even good at coming up with mostly original ideas!

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Monster Iestyn View Post
Plus the fact that SMS is someone else's Sonic fan character in the first place.
Taking into consideration what fans do to officially-licensed characters (as well as each other's fan-characters) without permission,that shouldn't technically be an issue.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #25
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Originally Posted by Soulman Model CE View Post
Now that I think about it, HMS was (intentionally) made to be even more unoriginal (and overpowered), being mostly based on SMS to begin with, so HMS being the "definition of unoriginal" would probably make more sense...
It's also a parody, so I'm not sure what you're getting at

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Also, not everyone is skilled at making sprites from scratch, able to create custom lua or even good at coming up with mostly original ideas!
So? Work within your limits, or improve on your weaknesses. If character wads aren't what you're good at, try level design.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #26
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At this point, especially around 2.1 and the eventual 2.2, there is NO EXCUSE to have a character at the quality of SMS or HMS, you can do better than that, you will do better than that, and if you don't think you'll do better than those two, then don't do it at all.

Nothing about SMS can be salvaged, from the design, to the lazy spritework, to the stupidly overpowered abilities, to the creator's failure to understand criticism towards this... Nothing, not a god damn thing within SRB2's lifespan can make this character better. I'm sorry, but you will have to live with it, this discussion will keep going in circles if you really think there is something actually redeemable about a character this infamous.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #27
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I think in the abstract, Cobalt is right. It is possible to rework anything to create an interesting and new concept whilst maintaining the spirit of what it was.

On the other hand, this thread's other responses DO illuminate that such a thing wouldn't fly here anymore. The well's long been poisoned and nobody can do anything about it, even if they wanted to.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #28
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I'm one of the few who has never used SMS or HMS - because the former is way too OP and can't be fixed without a lot of changes which would stop them being SMS, and the latter because, while I get the joke, I tend not to play joke wads.

Instead, I tend to try and make new stuff, although I tend to focus more on Circuit-type maps. Which in a way includes NiGHTS maps, as each Mare makes a complete circuit. But with a character WAD, I would intend to make them have a decent role which makes them play differently from Sonic and company but doesn't outclass them completely.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #29
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Originally Posted by RomioTheBadass View Post
I didn't even know people hated it.
Nor me;
But i hated it too.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #30
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Nor me;
But i hated it too.
I never visited the message board that often around this time. I just found the WAD on a lot of the servers I would join. I like SMS just because he’s fun to play. I liked the side running animation a lot. Overall it was a lot of fun to simply speed around and see how fast you could complete the levels at his speed.

I guess I was too naive to understand how flawed he was on the inside since I was younger back then and never even touched the message board.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #31
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I personally don't have a problem with SMS. Though I don't play SRB2 online, so I haven't encountered people using him to have a big advantage over others who aren't using him, and I don't personally remember the shading work to be super bad or anything. I've found it fun to play as him in the past and have enjoyed it a lot. Granted, it's many years since I've last played as SMS in SRB2, so of course my younger self may be less "criticizing" or such about SMS than if I was introduced to SMS for the first time at my current age.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #32
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Originally Posted by Smith The Icefox View Post
Nor me;
But i hated it too.
I don't hate it, I just thought it's another "passable" type of character mod, nothing special, nothing worth hating or worth high praise.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #33
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Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
It's also a parody, so I'm not sure what you're getting at
What I'm getting at is that parodies are unoriginal by default; they are created based on an at least slightly more original idea just to make fun of it, usually in a poorly done and uninformed way.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #34
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I didn't knew SMS was hated that much by MB until i saw these posts
But most what people said here is the truth
SMS is so overpowered, and has little to no weaknesses, that takes out the entire challenge/fun of the game out.
About the design of the character itself, I'm kinda mixed about it
I Don't mind much the shading of the sprites, but the sprites really are just flashy and too bright, and SMS is basicly and OC from someone that mixed Sonic Or Shadow, and decided to make a SRB2 Wad Character without any kind of interesting backstory or any fun gimmick to make the character good, besides from being horrificly fast.

When you make an character, or either play as one, what makes it fun is not only it's strenghts, but also their weaknesses, like Sonic, He's really fast, and his Thok can help him to reach further distances/jumps, but his biggest drawback, is that he can't really reach high places without the help of springs, badnik jumps or characters to help him like Tails.
Or Knuckles, which his glide and climbing abilities gives him more possibilities to go at higher and hidden places, as also his ability to break rocks without the need of spin dashing, but his biggest draw is that he can't really jump that high and reach high places without the help of his climbing ability or even its glide to avoid pits and falling to death, unlike the other characters.

You see what makes playing with these characters interesting?
It's using their strenghts to overcome their weaknesses, and all of them have something unique into them, making them different from each other.

SMS in other hand
Is awfully unbalanced.

SMS has little to no weaknesses or any kind of unique traits at him (Except by the OVERPOWERED QUALITIES) that makes him unique among all these characters.
The fact he has no drawbacks, it takes all the fun or challenge that the game could offer you, he runs fast, his spindash charges in no seconds at all, his ghost thok let him reach higher places (Even more than Tails fly ability) and you can use it about almost anywhere and there's really no limit on how much you can use it, then, making the entire game really easy with no challenge at all

a Character like him should have a drawback like:

Starts with 50 Rings, loses 1 each second, when reaches 0 dies instead of de-transforming, Thok uses 2 rings at each use, can't turn into super, instead tokens give you 25 rings each one you collect, and every time he gets hit he loses 5 rings, his ghost thok uses 10 rings at each use, everytime you kill an enemy you get 2 rings and if you use and uncharged spindash, you consume 5 rings.

If SMS wasn't really SMS, maybe it would be a better character, it's only a faster Sonic Reskin with shadow aspects, it's trying it's hardest to be edgy and cool
But in the end it's just lame overpowered character

I don't think we really need SMS anymore, or at least until it really gets good
By the time of 1.09.4 this kind of quality was fine
But at 2.1 or 2.2
No way, we have lots of interesting wads like Dirk The Husky, Jetsyn and even Shadow Or Silver that takes advantage of the Lua scripting to make interesting things to their gameplay.

SMS won't be missed tbh, or at least until he makes something worth to be at MB again.

TL;DR
SMS is only a faster Sonic reskin with shadow fused in, and lacks and removes any kind of challenge or fun at the game, Unnecessarily overpowered and tries too hard to be cool and edgy.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #35
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Maybe if SMS was Originally a decent OC that isnt sonic and didnt have crazy OP ablities.(Though i like the sky wall-jump)

Then maybe he would of been remembered as an ok Character.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman Model CE View Post
What I'm getting at is that parodies are unoriginal by default; they are created based on an at least slightly more original idea just to make fun of it, usually in a poorly done and uninformed way.
That's a generalization; not all parodies exist simply to butcher the source material. Well-done ones are often implemented with a good understanding of what they're parodying and actually have creative ways of reflecting on the source material ironically, which is what makes them so memorable. Just take for instance a Mel Brooks film or any old episode from Simpsons; Space Balls has plenty of jokes that only deep Star Wars fans would fully appreciate.

With regard to HMS the wad, I disagree that it is necessarily unoriginal. Nobody before then had made any sort of parody character wad, at least not of that nature, and some of the abilities HMS is capable of, such as OHKOing bosses, blasting through walls and almost instantly clearing levels, are so ridiculous that they're hard not to appreciate just out of novelty.
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Last edited by CobaltBW; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:10 PM. Reason: I don't know why I'm using Mel Brooks as an example, please just bear with me here
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #37
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I'm thinking that most of this hatred of SMS should be directed towards the creator, rather than the character, because the character is an apparent product of the inadequacy of the ideas and skills of the creator. In other words, the real problem is the creator.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #38
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I think you need to seriously go back and reread the entire thread and the responses you have been getting, because everything you just said has been addressed multiple times by multiple people earlier in this thread, but I'll try going with a brief summary:

1) SMS is broken conceptually. It's overpowered, which makes it boring.
2) It lacks anything like decent visuals. SMS is genuinely ugly.
3) The speed at which the thing moves at is not remotely reasonable in SRB2. We did not design our levels with going the absolute speed limit the entire time
4) This is all meant to be serious. The author did this with the idea that he was making quality content. He wasn't.

There are plenty of reasons to be agitated with its creator over the monstrosity (Among other things already pointed out in this thread). But that's irrelevant to the character.

The reason HMS is considered funny is because it does all the things listed above, except it does so deliberately badly and was based off an old image that made fun of people making OP fancharacters seriously. The humor in HMS is ironic, not because there's any intrinsic value to its gameplay.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #39
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Originally Posted by Soulman Model CE View Post
I'm thinking that most of this hatred of SMS should be directed towards the creator, rather than the character, because the character is an apparent product of the inadequacy of the ideas and skills of the creator. In other words, the real problem is the creator.
I disagree.
SMS should be regarded as an example of how not to design a character.
Directing dislike towards the creator only serves to mask the real problem.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #40
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Honestly, I feel part of the issue with the "hate" is the idea that people seem to consider SMS an OC. While I mean, sure, that is somewhat true, the thing is, they are still /meant/ to be Sonic... just a horribly overpowered, recolor form of him. And considering the concept was meant to amplify what sonic already has (speed), the way it handles completely fits the original concept.

Its just that its a somewhat poor concept, on top of being a recolor.

(I mean, Darkspine Sonic is basically the same exact thing, recolor and all, except they get less hate because they are canon.)
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