Puppyfaic
Member
I highly doubt that. Peach's Up B, Mario's Up B, and Zero Suit Samus' Up B are all capable of the same things and they've been around since vanilla Sm4sh.
Super Smash Bros [Wii U | 3DS]
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I highly doubt that. Peach's Up B, Mario's Up B, and Zero Suit Samus' Up B are all capable of the same things and they've been around since vanilla Sm4sh.
When it's virtually impossible to be killed by this move at that percent unless you're doing something stupid or some freak accident happens, then yes.
Jigglypuff and Little Mac both have similar trump cards of their own, although the conditional requirements for each are different.
I don't think so, no.
Falcon Punch charges much faster than that, so this is a weak comparison.
This is a ridiculous hyperbole. This is not Brawl Metaknight we're talking about, Roy takes just as much skill to perform well with as the next top tier. Roy's main strengths come from sweetspotting and combos, and a good Roy has to be good at stringing together moves all while capitalizing on his sweetspots with good positioning.
Make a real case that he doesn't require effort to play, because I think this is just the salt talking right now.
Make no mistake that I do think Roy is top tier, but "balanced" is subjective to what you think Smash 4's standard for character power should be. If you think Sheik and Rosalina are balanced, then Roy certainly isn't that offensive at all, but if you think characters like Marth and Lucina are balanced, then it stands to reason that Roy isn't the only character that needs to be nerfed.
No, you've never seen anything like this. lol
Again, bound to be patched out.
Puppyfaic
Member
I have, actually. It's something I can recreate on a consistent basis, as a matter of fact. Peach has had this exact ability since the game first came out.
During the event of Roy charging neutral B, Ganondorf could slowly walk up to him and reverse warlock punch Roy in the face before nB is fully charged. Alternatively, have you considered not approaching Roy? The only way this move could hit at full charge is if the other player is blind or really, really, really, really, REALLY bad at the game. In which case, them losing the match because of it is the least of their concern, and also yes in fact funny.
Smash Bros does not require you approach your opponent like a magnet.
Tip of Roy's sword has dramatically decreased knockback.
I'm not primarily talking about charging speeds, I was mainly referring to knockback power in my last post. Charging speeds have nothing to do with that. Combos, I can agree with some extent, but have too powerful sweet spotting as a strength to make a character good?
Salt? Wow... If stating my reasoning of this character is salt, then god forbid what other characters I mention which are in the higher tiers. There are far more people (youtube is a good place to find salty people) who have some real salt problems for this game in particular.
I already started my reasons and I don't need to further justify it. After playing as him a lot to research this, and facing many of them online already (skilled and not as competitively skilled) I think it stands alone just how he plays, how easy he is to pick up, and combined with the overpowered knockback, how silly it is. You even mentioned briefly how he plays and it's those points which make him the way he is now. I have no idea why you are even bringing up Meta Knight from SSBB, but if you want to think that way, then yes I honestly think that's how it is with Roy.
I wouldn't say certain characters like Sheik and Rosalina are perfect (Especially Sheik) but with them you actually have to practice their close and zoning combat capabilities to get the best out of the pair of them, because otherwise they actually won't be able to do squat. Whilst I'm not personally a big fan of Lucina as just a character alone, something like her is what I like to look for in a balanced character in not just the move-set and their stats, the difficulty of executing moves and handling the character, but also how much you have to put in to get good as them is something I look for in a Smash Bros fighter. If there's one thing I do fully agree with you however is that Roy isn't the only character that needs to be nerfed in one or two areas. A few others also need it as well. Most of his actual moves are fine, but like I mentioned it's his knockback power in his moves that really need to be nerfed, especially in his sweetspots, then I would actually like Roy more as a character.
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Interesting. Got a clip?
Roy is not Brawl Meta Knight. In fact I don't think any character will ever come as close to his absurdity; pre-nerf Diddy was closer than Roy. The fact that you say otherwise kind of establishes my point that you're resorting to hyperbole.
You've already said you don't need to justify your reasons any further, so I guess I'll just stop there. But I will say that I don't think any character below Shiek should be nerfed; in fact, Roy, Shiek, Rosalina, are the general strength of characters that we should be aiming for. Smash 4 is a heavily defensive meta due to limited combos and strong shield/dodge options, and top tier aggressive characters counter-balance this because of the reward they get from their moveset. That means a lot of characters need to be buffed, of course, but I think that's better for gameplay.
Meta Knight in SSBB invalidated most other characters because all his moves were fast, had decent disjoint, and had priority. Meta Knight could recover from anywhere with little risk, and his uair pulled him upward as well as its fast speed. It was safe both as a recovery tool and an Out-of-Shield tool which could combo into itself into a Shuttle Loop for the kill. Fighting MK relied exclusively on whether or not you were playing MK too.
SSBB became a game wherein either everyone played MK, or nobody did. There was no in-between.
If you're suggesting Roy invalidates the rest of the cast at such a severity that it mimics SSBB MK, then I would greatly appreciate if you could link to some recent tournament Roy vs Roy finals, the top 8 consisting of Roy, Roy, Roy, Pikachu, Roy, Sheik, Roy, and Roy.
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It's worth mentioning that some characters like Snake, Diddy, and IC went toe to toe with MK. But the characters that were competent against him were in the single digits. (and this is of a cast of 35 characters)
I like to call Metaknight the C-Stick with Wings, but you can also get a lot of work done by just spamming neutral B. Or you could just shark the stage indefinitely. Or cape stall.
Roy isn't as absurdly easy to use as you're making it out to be, Hyper. Mario can literally just utilt and uair out of grab repeatedly for early damage. Ness can PK fire and lead into dumb combos, plus he has one of the strongest kill throws. Lots of the top/high tier have tools that are easy to use.
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Eliwood
Member
When should we tell this guy about shield grabs and out of shield options? Or how Roy has to constantly put himself in unsafe ranges of other characters? Or his terrible recovery? Or the fact that he is combo food?
Nah probably not.
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Eliwood
Member
Not if you perfect shield
Puppyfaic
Member
Yes, because it's reasonable to be expected to frame-perfect shield every single move Roy throws out.
Puppyfaic
Member
You're still expecting someone to be able to perfect-shield every move a very fast character throws out on reaction.
...Actually, yes. If you want to play the game competitively (ie. the only place where Roy is hypothetically as good as you claim he is), you're either expected to, or expected to fake it well enough that you avoid situations you'd be required to do it.
And the instant you DO do it, you can grab him and quickly learn that Roy's air game isn't quite as good as his ground game.
And if you're still having trouble, have you considered counter-picking a character specifically to deal with Roy if he's that big a deal? Samus? Megaman? Duckhunt? Marth?
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