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Loops and corkscrews, on the other hand, are very much not. Slopes and quarter pipes provided several gameplay benefits that resulted in them getting made eventually after much complaining; loops and corkscrews don't have that added edge. Maybe it might seem "cool", but how much does it add to the gameplay experience? Nothing slopes by themselves don't provide.

If you really think about it, loop-de-loops were kind of a formality after Sonic 1. They were a training obstacle in Green Hill Zone, as they taught the player that certain terrain can be cleared by running through them with enough momentum. The introduction of the spindash made even that kind of arbitrary.
 
Loops aren't useless, they allow you to build up momentum rapidly. They're way more practical in the case of outside loops, since those can be used to catapult yourself in any direction. Besides that, loops are just a consequence of inverted quarter pipes (and ceiling running), which are absolutely a great addition, but maybe not so important in an engine where we can't pitch or roll the camera. But even though the April O'Neil O'Fools loop was just a joke hack with gravity switching, how hard would it be to implement it for real? Just flip the player's gravity when they touch a ceiling slope and switch it back when their velocity dips below X value, right?

SUGGESTION: Since the slope-wall transfer apparently works in 2.2, can we also jump off the wall? I bet you can fake it without actually requiring wall collision, just flag the player going airborne off a slope while rolling, check for the angle of the nearest linedef (within like, 2 units) then thrust the player up and away perpendicular to that angle- then we could use the jump state to regain air maneuverability. Dunno how you'd handle that for a quarter pipe with no extended wall, but even if it meant getting a free jump on air, I still think that's preferable and truer to the classics.

If not that, can we still at least directionally influence the movement when going airborn after rolling off a slope? Anything to prevent stale air when going straight up. Even the Tony Hawk games let you DI out of quarter pipes so you don't have to hit the slope on the way down.
 
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Basically, when you hit a quarterpipe, you're not transferring onto the wall, you're being launched into the air. We haven't completely nailed down the physics perfectly yet, but the intent is to give you as much directional influence as you have while jumping, since that's basically how the game is handling what's going on to begin with. Think of it like when you go off a small quarterpipe and get launched into the air in the classics.
 
If you're trying to give the player as much control as when they're jumping, couldn't you just add the jumped flag and remove the spinning flag when they come off the ground? Maybe add the thokked flag as well for good measure?
 
I'm not saying these changes are hard. I'm saying that we're in the stage where we've discussed how we think we want it to work, but haven't sat down and implemented it and tested it to make sure that we like it that way.
 
That would be neat but if you could curl back into a spin and use the thok but in refering to classic games it doesnt happen at all.
 
New crusher types
1: FOF Crusher (Upwards)-Moves upwards fast and downwards slow. Makes the crush sound when it reaches the top of its movement. Can be muted with a linedef flag on the control sector. Movement constraints are set up the same way as moving fof's

2: FOF Crusher (Downwards)-Moves downwards fast and upwards slow. Makes the crush sound when it reaches the bottom of its movement. Can be muted with a linedef flag on the control sector. Movement constraints are set up the same way as moving fof's
 
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Can the game be more controller friendly? I know in SRB2 Kart (2.0) I don't have to touch my laptop at all, while in vanilla 2.1 I have to switch constantly between the two.
 
Can the game be more controller friendly? I know in SRB2 Kart (2.0) I don't have to touch my laptop at all, while in vanilla 2.1 I have to switch constantly between the two.
It would help a lot if you stated why you have to constantly switch between the two.

If what you're talking about is better menu support for controllers (including customizable menu controls that let you bind keys (including opening the menu) as you wish), I have a fully functional version of that done... It's just that with version 2.1 being so old and already-used, it's kind of too big a change for a 2.1.X patch to add in, but once 2.2 releases, I should be able to port it over to hopefully get it into one of the first couple of 2.2 patches.

If what you're talking about is something else, please explain.
 
For the next version, possibly have Top Down mode as a possible game mode built into the engine? A lot of people seem to make their maps made for both nowadays. Maybe even put the maps in, too. It wouldn't be the first time a fan mod became canon (SRB1 Demake, Mystic Realms music... What I would do to see an overhauled Mystic Realm added to the game proper as a separate game campaign *sigh*)

Oh! And possibly make it so you can change a secondary color in addition to the primary, like that one lua mod. Adds a lot more variety in distinguishing players.
 
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It would help a lot if you stated why you have to constantly switch between the two.

If what you're talking about is better menu support for controllers (including customizable menu controls that let you bind keys (including opening the menu) as you wish), I have a fully functional version of that done... It's just that with version 2.1 being so old and already-used, it's kind of too big a change for a 2.1.X patch to add in, but once 2.2 releases, I should be able to port it over to hopefully get it into one of the first couple of 2.2 patches.

If what you're talking about is something else, please explain.
I guess I should have been more clear, my bad.
Anyway what you said was spot on. Is there any way you could P.M. that to me? I would love to have something like that.
 
For the next version, possibly have Top Down mode as a possible game mode built into the engine? A lot of people seem to make their maps made for both nowadays. Maybe even put the maps in, too. It wouldn't be the first time a fan mod became canon (SRB1 Demake, Mystic Realms music... What I would do to see an overhauled Mystic Realm added to the game proper as a separate game campaign *sigh*)

You know, I've seen these kind of "add in this cool exe mod/level pack/custom gametype I like" suggestions before... and while I do kind of see where they're coming from, SRB2 really doesn't need to include all the cool things people have made as addons/mods for SRB2.*

* please don't quote me on this if we suddenly decide to throw in SRB2 Kart, Top Down, Mystic Realm, SUGOI (and while we're at it, SRB2SBAHJ) as unlockables in the distant future.

Top Down for example has a lot of changes to the gameplay itself, rather than simply being a version of Single Player/Coop with a top-down camera - rings act as HP restorers for a HUD health bar of sorts, players respawn with bubbles, everyone shares the camera, and the characters' stats and abilities are also modified. Not only would it be a lot of work just to port the code for Top Down's gameplay to ours, but implementing it would probably mean we'd also have to maintain it alongside the existing gametypes as well as working on the main SP game itself.

Mystic Realm, meanwhile, is a complete Single Player mod of its own, with unlockables, emblems and even a Super Sonic final boss. Again, we would have to maintain this alongside everything else in SRB2, even if we could feasibly add the level pack in without removing any of its features.

SRB1 Remake meanwhile has actually been removed from SRB2 for the next major version, 2.2. There is not actually much that is redeeming about it, and it wasn't even complete anyway (no bosses exist, and Space Chase Zone is notably absent).

Mystic Realm's soundtrack is undeniably good though, can't argue with that. But it's not just a fun inclusion anymore, our Special Stages actually use most of it now!
 
Some ideas and concerns

Ever since I first played SRB2 12 years ago some things have consistently bothered me.

One is the huge trail that appears when you spindash. It’s too big and visually obstructive, I would prefer afterimages instead or nothing at all.

Another thing is the checkpoints. They are too small, if the checkpoints were more like SA1 it would be much better. I don’t think it’s very hard to implement I’ve seen it done in some maps.

Sonic feels very underpowered especially in the later levels. He needs an additional ability, such as running on water without speed shoes, or being able to thok under any condition once, or maybe having the light dash which could make for exclusive routes. As fast as he is and even with the potential of Super Sonic, he feels limiting to play as in more ways than one.

The lack of a drop-shadow can get very frustrating later on. This is another thing I’ve seen done before so I am certain it is possible.


The following I posted on a Discord discussion but I thought I'd post them here as well.

I was thinking of replacing Dark City Zone with an ice level inspired by Superman's Fortress of Solitude.

The first act would be climbing out of Red Volcano Zone and making your way toward the fortress, which can be seen in the distance thanks to skyboxes.

The early areas of the first act would begin with leaving red volcano zone, it would take place underground. You would leave behind the fire and lava gradually. At some point there would only be earth and rock. A little bit later you would see an opening and emerge surrounded by a snowy area with the fortress visible from a distance.

For Grand Eggship Zone, I just thought of replacing it with a more fleshed out and polished version of Aerial Garden Zone as a sort of homage to Sky Sanctuary.

I apologize if any of this has been discussed before or if I was out of line with anything in this post. I've been a big fan of SRB2 for a long time but only recently I sought to get involved in the community.
 
Ever since I first played SRB2 12 years ago some things have consistently bothered me.

One is the huge trail that appears when you spindash. It’s too big and visually obstructive, I would prefer afterimages instead or nothing at all.

Another thing is the checkpoints. They are too small, if the checkpoints were more like SA1 it would be much better. I don’t think it’s very hard to implement I’ve seen it done in some maps.

Sonic feels very underpowered especially in the later levels. He needs an additional ability, such as running on water without speed shoes, or being able to thok under any condition once, or maybe having the light dash which could make for exclusive routes. As fast as he is and even with the potential of Super Sonic, he feels limiting to play as in more ways than one.

The lack of a drop-shadow can get very frustrating later on. This is another thing I’ve seen done before so I am certain it is possible.

Some of these are being addressed for 2.2. Spin trails are being removed AFAIK (for the default characters anyway), and I saw screenshots of player shadows in development somewhere.

As for Sonic's balance, most would argue that he's pretty fine the way he is. In fact, he's the character that must take advantage of the level design, instead of skipping over it like Tails and Knuckles do. In the case of a race he would probably lose out to Tails in some of the later levels, depending on the skill of the player—but I'd say he's far from underpowered. In every other gamemode he's considered the best character, and certainly the most exciting and rewarding in all game modes (at least in my opinion). The abilities you suggested wouldn't even help, anyway—especially running on water, which is useless in RVZ and ERZ, and hardly useful at all in the previous zones.

Still, none of this invalidates the suggestion, though I believe it has already been said (correct me if I'm wrong anyone?) that Sonic is receiving no gameplay changes.
 
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As for Sonic's balance, most would argue that he's pretty fine the way he is. In fact, he's the character that must take advantage of the level design, instead of skipping over it like Tails and Knuckles do. In the case of a race he would probably lose out to Tails in some of the later levels, depending on the skill of the player—but I'd say he's far from underpowered. In every other gamemode he's considered the best character, and certainly the most exciting and rewarding in all game modes (at least in my opinion). The abilities you suggested wouldn't even help, anyway—especially running on water, which is useless in RVZ and ERZ, and hardly useful at all in the previous zones.

Still, none of this invalidates the suggestion, though I believe it has already been said (correct me if I'm wrong anyone?) that Sonic is receiving no gameplay changes.
Okay I understand. But how about something a bit more subtle. In SA1 after you let go of a spindash, you can press the action button again to make Sonic start running. This way you never lost speed. Making the spindash work exactly like SA1 in SRB2 is not a good idea, but giving Sonic the ability to uncurl from a spindash would flow well with his speed focused gameplay.

In addition, how about giving Sonic the FSonic's ability to go past top speed after running uninterrupted for a bit. I am not confident in this suggestion, but it's an idea to play with.
 
Sonic's difficulty is probably going to be partially addressed by the inclusion of slopes, which will give him new ways to use momentum as a height advantage.
 
I think allowing the player to uncurl from a spin is a bad idea, regardless of if it were implemented better than SA1. Rolling in the classics was always meant to be a bit of a commitment; lose speed when going up hills and less control over your character, but in return you gain extra speed when going down slopes and you can damage enemies. Not to mention, jump + thok is a pretty nice way to uncurl and keep your momentum.

Spindash is a lot more useless in 2.1 as it lacks slopes (what makes rolling an appealing option in the first place), but as Cobalt also mentioned, 2.2 uses them pretty extensively :p
 
To add to what's been said: lightdash was implemented a long time ago as part of Adventure mode. It was buggy, annoying, and the ring paths it used couldn't respawn in multiplayer, making the path one-use. Add that there's no way to block off the entrance to non-Sonic characters, and it's a pretty poor addition to the game to the point that unlike the Homing Attack - which was also made at the same time and still exists for modders to use - we completely wiped all traces of lightdash from the code.
 

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