What's with servers nowadays?

BECAUSE there are people who wanna show they're better than you even in coop, racing to the finish, getting the token first, etc. That the server allows such a thing is HIS(/her) fault, and should be hosting race if racing was the entire point.

Honestly, though. Coop is the most "Free" gametype outta all, as you can do about most of what you wanna do as long as at some point you'll finish. Hence why the allplayers exit thing is great. So those boring racing people who just wanna finish as fast as possible can have THEIR fun racing against nobody, while the others actually explore, get bonusses, try tricks, etc. Otherwise there'd constantly be people to ruin your fun and just finish at inconvenient moments. 'sides, you can "Exitlevel" if you're done. Somebody finished for real anyways.

Super mystic sonic said:

Honestly, though. Coop is the most "Free" gametype outta all, as you can do about most of what you wanna do as long as at some point you'll finish.

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But why would you do all this in a server instead of just playing single player?

Super mystic sonic said:

BECAUSE there are people who wanna show they're better than you even in coop, racing to the finish, getting the token first, etc. That the server allows such a thing is HIS(/her) fault, and should be hosting race if racing was the entire point.

Honestly, though. Coop is the most "Free" gametype outta all, as you can do about most of what you wanna do as long as at some point you'll finish. Hence why the allplayers exit thing is great. So those boring racing people who just wanna finish as fast as possible can have THEIR fun racing against nobody, while the others actually explore, get bonusses, try tricks, etc. Otherwise there'd constantly be people to ruin your fun and just finish at inconvenient moments. 'sides, you can "Exitlevel" if you're done. Somebody finished for real anyways.

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I agree. Me and Speedy fox are alway exploring castle eggman. I found a nuke box.

Super mystic sonic said:

Honestly, though. Coop is the most "Free" gametype outta all, as you can do about most of what you wanna do as long as at some point you'll finish. Hence why the allplayers exit thing is great.

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...You DO realize this "Freedom" to dick around and just do what-the-hell-ever is the reason why Hangout/RP servs are banned, right? Thing is, When you host ont he MS, you're asking people to play a GAME with you, so when people go into a Match, they expect fighting. Race is thoking. Coop is SP with other players. Thing is, Hangout/RP broke the "Play" aspect of this; while you ARE playing, it's not the way SRB2 was meant to be used. Likewise, just screwing about in Coop is pretty much the equivalent of Hangout, only with an excuse. And exploration and all that? Well, while there ARE some well hidden secrets, they aren't that hard to find (aside from Emblems, which are SP only anyways) and take 9001 minutes to get to. Just crack open SRB2DB, and you'll learn a LOT more than that. I personally find it more interesting to find out not just the secrets, but how they WORK too.

Thing is, Coop is a flawed game type, just like the "coop" in Sonic 2 or Sonic 3&K. there is no cooperation, and no need for it to find anything. Hell, I don't even know why it's supported by the MS. It's not cooperative aside from "lives plz" and "9999 rings", and it's either Race, or not really DOING anything. PLUS, it's a magnet for Hangout/RPs. Thing is, it's so OPEN to do what you want, it's not all that SERIOUS of a mode like Match or CTF. Hence, people often load 9001 char wads thinking it'll make it better, or have overpowered SOCs like the modified super monitors, or turn Ringslinger on and play Counter-Op. It's playing in a way that's not much better than Hangout/RP, and while it CAN be fun if hosted by someone who knows what they're doing and/or can SOC dam well to make things interesting, I honestly believe it has no place in the Master Server listing. It's like going to find a match in a fighting game, and getting a guy who offers you tea; it just doesn't belong there. It's a flawed gametype like it always was.

D00D64 said:

Thing is, Coop is a flawed game type, just like the "coop" in Sonic 2 or Sonic 3&K. there is no cooperation, and no need for it to find anything.

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Yeah, and your argument here is flawed, because many, many hours of my childhood are fond memories of playing S3K in Coop with a neighborhood friend. We probably beat S3K in Coop somewhere around 100 times before we got bored of playing it. With some like-minded people it's entirely possible to make such a "flawed" gametype work as intended, or just have fun with it regardless. It just requires both players actually play with the intent to help each other out.

Yes, it's not a competitive or serious gametype, but it's still part of the Sonic tradition. Hangout and RP are banned because they're not really playing the game. Coop is playing the game, it's just playing the game without serious structure. That's fine.

Before all of you hate on Coop as useless and/or unenjoyable, I suggest you try the following with a real life friend: Play 2 player Coop, either splitscreen or on a LAN. The player with least skill will play as Sonic. The better player will play as Tails and try to help the bad player through the level.

You would be surprised how massively fun this is.

Mystic said:

Before all of you hate on Coop as useless and/or unenjoyable, I suggest you try the following with a real life friend: Play 2 player Coop, either splitscreen or on a LAN. The player with least skill will play as Sonic. The better player will play as Tails and try to help the bad player through the level.

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It's not like the gametype was the problem. The problem are the people who play without any purpose. Most coop servers consist of 10 people beating the level all for themselves.

And I think that's what D00D64 meant when he said coop should be banned from the MS. Coop is only fun when you actually play with someone you know, and when you can either help somebody out or need help yourself. So the people who really play cooperatively could join by IP and the ones who just play it randomly wouldn't have a chance.

However, I don't think that would be worth it. Joining by IP is an incredible hassle and server meant for testing out WADs couldn't be set up.

SpiritCrusher said:

And I think that's what D00D64 meant when he said coop should be banned from the MS. Coop is only fun when you actually play with someone you know, and when you can either help somebody out or need help yourself. So the people who really play cooperatively could join by IP and the ones who just play it randomly wouldn't have a chance.

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Well, there ya go. It's best with people who know what they're doing, and with people that COOPERATE with each other, or just have fun their own way. Heck, just the other day, RedEchidna and I were doing Acid Missile coop, but RedEchidna said to turn on ringslinger, and soon after, I decided to make respawn time to one. Trying to fend off a player while attacking a boss is quite fun, actually. But that was just us messing around. I wouldn't put up that serv on the MS because that's not REALLY what the game intended, and it was just us...Well...Hanging out, kinda. Trying to do this in a Public serv would probably be a goddamn MESS, and end up being unfun.

Hm, I usually only host CTF, sometimes Match, and rarely some epic Hide n' Seek.

Yeah, coop is turning into a sequential race with emeralds, special stages, and bosses. I try to help this by hosting a match server with match wads so we don't have to stand the same old levels... bleah.

Mystic said:

Before all of you hate on Coop as useless and/or unenjoyable, I suggest you try the following with a real life friend: Play 2 player Coop, either splitscreen or on a LAN. The player with least skill will play as Sonic. The better player will play as Tails and try to help the bad player through the level.

You would be surprised how massively fun this is.

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Well, I tried that...
Me: Cyan Tails (Skilled Player - 3 Years)
Yagerr: Green Knuckles (Beginner - 2 Months)

We did try to help eachother, but Yagerr kept trying to speed ahead. :/

I just wanna try and figure out a way to make a server for people with the intent to help should go. :/

EDIT:
Wow. Just hosted a server of CTF. Just there. I managed to get
3 Noobs who didn't do anything but annoy people
1 JTE Imposter
4 Non-noobs who got deferred out of the server because of the noobs
And those noobs were sneaky and trying to avoid ban reasons. -.-
So yeah. I'm now pretty much put off SRB2.

I don't see what the big deal about this is. Most of the time, when I host a CTF server, it almost always fills to the max in about 20 minutes or so.

And I can hold 20 players.

for some reason i cant play on any server's anymore

The problem I'm seeing is that nobody actually plays coop cooperatively anymore. It's just get the tokens and finish.

Because COOP is fun?!?!

^And why is it that fun? Please explain why. Not that I hate it, but please give some reasons.

Now on topic, I also don't really like that literally 80% of the servers is coop (at least, the servers I can actually join, seeing half of the servers are too far away). But, that makes the occasional match/ctf game even more fun, I think. And ringslinger makes coop pretty fun... >=D

I find coop fun if people play it cooperatively, like helping eachother and all, but it's just boring when it's racing to the finish for the umpteenth time.

And your argument means nothing, Sonso, if you don't back it up. (Wait a moment, SONSO?! I recognise you)

(This is mainly directed at SpiritCrusher since he seems WAY too hostile for someone essentially complaining that people are having fun without his permission, but it probably rings true for several people.)

Trying to quantify fun is a hard thing to do. If it wasn't, then making things that are fun would be a checklist by now. The fact that these people are having fun is undeniable, though, seeing as how they keep hosting servers and keep having people join. It must be really frustrating having no-one play your favoured gametype(s) because they're having fun without your permission in a gametype you disagree with the existence of, but if they actually listened to you, then what? There'd be no server there at all, they'd be alone, playing single player. Since space on the MS isn't a particularly finite thing, I don't see what your problem is with people doing something they find fun, even if you can't understand it, in a netgame with others.

"Enforced co-op" levels are one of those things that people keep mentioning, but no-one with sufficient talent has ever implemented, like really big match levels for heavy-load servers. If you really want to see one, then practice level designing, try to become proficient, and then show all these people you disagree with what it's all about. Until then, keep to the servers you like or host your own. No-one forced you to play co-op.

Warpshade said:

No-one forced you to play co-op.

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But that's the problem. Their argument is that they ARE forced to play Coop, because that's what everyone hosts.

Like I said, if you don't like any of the games that are running, either host your own or shut up.

Neo Chaotikal said:

But that's the problem. Their argument is that they ARE forced to play Coop, because that's what everyone hosts.

Like I said, if you don't like any of the games that are running, either host your own or shut up.

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Not everyone can host their own. Shutting up being the only option is hardly democratic.

What, pray tell, is stopping you? IP routing? Forward your ports. Connection speed? You're lagging down other people's games, too. School firewall in the way? Then turn off the computer and get back to studying algebra.

I can't think of a practical reason why you wouldn't be able to host a game except for lazyness.