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Old 08-23-2010   #61
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Originally Posted by Kyasarin View Post
If you don't like Sonic's dominance in Race, find your own solution, because it's not likely to be in the official game any time soon.
That is what I'm saying.
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What if you're not the host? What if you aren't able to make your own server?
What if you want to play Race in a way that's actually entertaining for you?
I understand what you are saying, but honestly, that isn't my problem. If there is something wrong with your computer or something, then find out how to fix it.
And if you want to play race without thokfests, then just play the levels that can't be thokfests, or make your own race levels. Just because some people complain about how race is unfair, doesn't mean they will change it.

ONTOPIC: I don't really want any new game types, although if I knew how to soc and all that, I would most likely make the game types I suggested, such as death tag, or Steal the Bacon.
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Old 08-23-2010   #62
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I remember someone making a non-thok fest level. It had tons of walls that made it really hard to thok-fest.

Yet, it was still thokable. With the RIGHT turns and angles, you could do it. I'm betting its really hard to make a non-thok level.
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Old 08-23-2010   #63
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That is what I'm saying.
"Don't play Race" isn't finding a solution.

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I understand what you are saying, but honestly, that isn't my problem.
I don't get it. What's your point, and why should I even care?
I wasn't asking if it's your problem because you aren't in the category of "those that don't and can't have forwarded ports".

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If there is something wrong with your computer or something, then find out how to fix it.
There isn't always an easy solution.

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And if you want to play race without thokfests, then just play the levels that can't be thokfests, or make your own race levels.
You don't have any idea how hard it is to make a level where Sonic isn't dominant over Tails and Knuckles, or vice-versa.
Go and "make" a level that can't be a Thokfest and come back.

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Just because some people complain about how race is unfair, doesn't mean they will change it.
That's the problem.

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Originally Posted by FonicX
I think it could work because four way CTF is like four teams vsing each other.
Four-way CTF is horrifically broken in several ways:
  • It requires a lot of players to at least work.
  • It needs a lot more design skill than it takes to make a standard CTF level, and it's near-impossible to just "edit" a pre-made level to fit.
  • There's a mass amount of confusion. How could you find anyone? How would you know where the flag is? How would you know which way you're meant to go?
There's some fairly good reasons that four-way CTF doesn't exist (I think Mystic pointed out some good reasons) and it's staying that way.
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Old 08-23-2010   #64
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There's a mass amount of confusion. How could you find anyone? How would you know where the flag is? How would you know which way you're meant to go?

Really? There are markers you know.

Last edited by Mystery Cheese; 08-23-2010 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 08-23-2010   #65
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Really? There are markers you know.
Way to completely miss the point. I'm not referring to getting to the base; I'm referring to the flag itself if someone takes it.
To just "find someone" is hard to do when the map has four different bases to look through and a ton of people running around (assuming it's a proper game).
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Old 08-23-2010   #66
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Sure, you can hit tab to know which team has your flag, but even that'll break down when more than 20 people are in the game and the rankings screen can't display every player in the game anymore. If the person with your flag isn't in the top 20, you wouldn't even be able to see which team it is, never mind have any sort of clue where he ran with your flag.

There's also the fact that if you're winning, the person with your flag might not run to his own base purely to prevent you from scoring, throwing the usage of using tab to figure out where they went completely useless.

This may seem like a positive to some players, but I assure you that it's important to always be able to know which direction you're supposed to be running in order to accomplish your objective. Running into the wrong base and not finding the flag carrier would be incredibly annoying.
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Old 08-23-2010   #67
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But if your on a team you could PLAN ahead and make certain people go to certain bases every time the flag is taken.
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Old 08-23-2010   #68
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Jeck, not only is that insanely impractical, it requires voice chat to do basic operations. A gametype in a game without built-in voice chat should not require voice chat to be in any way capable of playing.

Normal CTF is simple enough that people can generate roles for themselves without talking about it directly. "That guy is running the flag and those two are running towards their base to get our flag back, so maybe I should defend the flag runner" is an easy and logical assumption you can make without talking to your teammates at all. This would require a level of organization on your team that is well beyond what you can just glean from watching what your teammates are doing.
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Old 08-23-2010   #69
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Originally Posted by Autosaver View Post
Knuckles could have a Knuckles only breakable wall to cut time. etc.
Wouldn't that help Sonic more then? I mean, sure, probably the first lap the Sonic player would not get to use it, but second lap and BAM easy access.
Also, even with the current shortcuts, Sonic can still beat Tails or Knuckles in any race stage. It's just how circuit mode is built. The biggest problem to overcome is the check points, and too few and then it becomes unbalanced.

Also, as much as people complain about thok-fests, if a stage because more lenient towards Tails, what would it be then? A fly-fest?
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Who says race is a thokfest?
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Old 08-23-2010   #70
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A fly-fest?
It would become people raging on and on about how Tails is so cheap with his spin-dash flight exploits.
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Old 08-24-2010   #71
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Originally Posted by Kyasarin View Post
I don't get it. What's your point, and why should I even care?

There isn't always an easy solution

You don't have any idea how hard it is to make a level where Sonic isn't
dominant over Tails and Knuckles, or vice-versa.
Go and "make" a level that can't be a Thokfest and come back.

That's the problem.
My point is complaining about how race isn't perfected doesn't do anything other than bother other users and players.

I know there isn't an easy solution.

So you're saying that ERZ, DSZ, or ACZ are thokfests as well?

At least we have a middle ground here: we can both agree on one thing: too many people complain about something that isn't even perfected yet. Arguing about our seperate opinions won't help at all, so I suggest we at the very least take this into PMs, if not end the fight all together.
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Old 08-24-2010   #72
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what was chaos?
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Old 08-24-2010   #73
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My point is complaining about how race isn't perfected doesn't do anything other than bother other users and players.
We can still get it fixed. I'm fine with people complaining as long as they have a reason for it and can offer up a solution.
And the campaign levels (save the first two) aren't exactly Thokfests, but how can you expect to make a good Race level like that?

Can someone explain why it's such a big deal that Tails and Knuckles aren't as good as Sonic in Race mode? In a mode based on speed you should expect the fastest person to win. Why should players that pick obviously bad choices for that kind of thing not end up losing?
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Old 08-24-2010   #74
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Chaos was a gamemode where players would destroy an endless amount of enemies that spawn around the map. The player that reaches a certain amount of points, or earn the most points in a set time, win.
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Old 08-24-2010   #75
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Problem with chaos, as I keep hearing, is that the robots only targeted the closest player and lock on to them preventing other players from getting the points from them.

however, I think this is actually a fault of the spawner locking on to the player and spawning the robots. It may be late now, but It might had worked better if the spawner was constantly spinning and spawing allowing the robots to spawn in different directions and go after whatever player they saw.
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Old 08-24-2010   #76
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That wouldn't fix anything. It would still be completely random, just now a different variety of random.
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Old 08-24-2010   #77
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But if your on a team you could PLAN ahead and make certain people go to certain bases every time the flag is taken.
Man, do you know how hard it is to get the chaos emeralds from your own team?

I personally find it easier to bomb every enemy hedgehog I see!

It is really hard to "plan" anything on a team.
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Old 08-24-2010   #78
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Originally Posted by ThunderNova View Post
Chaos was a gamemode where players would destroy an endless amount of enemies that spawn around the map. The player that reaches a certain amount of points, or earn the most points in a set time, win.
Chaos sounds fun.
What about hold the flag/emblem? That would be a good gametype.
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Old 08-24-2010   #79
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All of this can be fixed in a certain way.
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Old 08-24-2010   #80
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It would become people raging on and on about how Tails is so cheap with his spin-dash flight exploits.
Any consistent character superiority is a bad thing in any competitive gametype. At the very least, if different characters were better in different maps (should true character balance be impossible), then it would encourage more strategy and gameplay variety, which Circuit is extremely lacking in purely due it being biased toward one character without any serious emphasis on items or alternate paths.
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