SRB2 Message Board  

Go Back   SRB2 Message Board > Archived > Outdated Releases (2.0.X) > Outdated Official Level Design Contest (2.0.X)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2012   #21
Spherallic
オレンジミント
Developer
 
Spherallic's Avatar
Default

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1 by Zipper
4/10
Mostly average design, with a bit too many insta-killing hazards, ranging from expectable to completely unfair. (I'm looking at you, crumbling platform with the two signs on it)

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0
10/10
So hard, but oh so satisfying once you clear a difficult section. Not to mention it's actually completely fair, polished, and (dare I say it) simply perfect.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel
5/10
It's so basic, so simple and it should be so boring. But somehow the theme does make up for that somewhat!

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2 by Blade
6/10
The ice palace area was pretty fun and refreshing! Too bad the rest of the level is just a less-than-well-done rehash of act 1...

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2 by CoatRack
5/10
I'm sorry, but I honestly had as much fun playing this level as I had playing Sonic's Schoolhouse, even though this level is actually so much better designed. But the difficulty is just so inconsistent, with some parts being a cakewalk and others being unfair thanks to lackluster design. The reverse gravity room comes to mind, with the overly fast conveyor belt that can only be traversed by thokking, which more often than not sends you flying into the death pit behind the platform you need to be on. And also the bouncy liquid right before that segment which can flip you into a death pit.

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by ShadowHog
8/10
Am I the only one who got completely lost and didn't like this at all? The unfittingly silly music and the unfun gimmick are basically all this level has that I could experience.
I'm sorry, past me is an idiot. Aside from the maze (that I got hopelessly lost in the first time), the level is actually quite amazing! However, leading the fire ghosts into the water can be a pain sometimes, and 3 rings might not be a lot for the final boss (which was otherwise awesome), but I have no complaints aside from those three things.

Last edited by Spherallic; 07-18-2012 at 10:24 AM.
Spherallic is offline  
Old 07-04-2012   #22
LightspeedX
aka PrismaticAngel
Default

As I said, interesting.

Industrial Valley Zone 1 by Zipper - 5/10

This level is... well... kinda boring actually. It's average really. Nothing too special. Well, it's a bunch of running and jumping and jumping over pits and strategically placed hazards but it's just... uninteresting. This map isn't bad, but it's not good either. Like Mystic said, this map pretty much defines average.

Also, this:
Spoiler:
Thats the extra life thats on a rock in the second area that, after it collapses, doesn't cause you to die and has a wrong texture assigned to it.

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 6/10

This level is quite good, challenging too. For example, I like that you strategically placed Buzzes over death pits so you have to avoid them at all if you want to make it to the other side. I also like how this was used in the Knuckles only path, although some parts are really tough, especially since the entire level was underwater. I also really hated those Gargoyles sometimes since they were placed in some very annoying places and sometimes I even used god to get past those annoying creatures.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel - 4/10

Well, this level is cute and adorable although I've never played Sonic's Schoolhouse before. This level looks and is quite fun (I especially like those nicely made doors) but it doesn't actually provide alot of challenge. I also feel that this level could've been longer and that there could've been done more with it.

Frozen Hillside Zone 2 by Blade - 7/10

This level is good, it has nice enemies, secrets and gimmicks, but I feel like you can do better. The snow can get a little grating sometimes and by the way, the area with the End level sign doesn't have a bottomless pit effect assigned to it, meaning that if you try to reach one of those structures and fail, you're stuck at the bottom.

Chemical Facility Zone 2 by CoatRack - 8/10

This level is very enjoyable but it has it's flaws. On one hand, the bouncy liquid is very fun and the custom enemies are very interesting. There are also some good alternate paths to choose from. On the other hand, that slippery liquid is very annoying and some of the enemies are placed in very annoying places, like in one place where you have to use the physics of the water to get higher there is a goop and a slime turret placed right on the platform you need to reach and that makes it very annoying to get to. Also, sometimes the bouncy liquid fails me and causes me to fall through it, killing me.

On another note, I discovered this goof:
Spoiler:


Lightless Labyrinth Zone by Shadow Hog - 6/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daywalker View Post
Fumbling in the Dark, Sonic style.
Funny, I thought that sort of was the idea behind this level. Also, this. I feel like that music would've fitted this level better, although the current music also fits this level since it makes me think about Sonic running around in the dark hitting walls and running in circles.

On to the level itself, I like the original idea you're using of walking around in the dark and using spotlights to mark your next location. However, some parts absolutley kill this level. That multi chrusher for example is really annoying to pass without using the god cheat and some of the enemies, though fairly original, especially the fire one that can only be defeated with water, start to get very annoying after a while. Especially in the area where I have to lure multiple of them to the other side of a hallway to get rid of them through the water. I did very much like that boss though, although I'm a little confused over how to defeat said boss since one time I had to defeat him regularly but another time I apparently caused something to happen that ended the fight early and sent me to the end. Like you said, it was a polarizing level from what I've seen so far.

Quote:
Log wrote:
P_SpawnXYZMissile - projectile has 0 speed! (mobj type 343)
Please update this SOC.
Wow, I'm quite terrible with reviews but here you go.
__________________
My YouTube
Quote:
<toaster> i love when people make videos of my stuff
<toaster> i love you lightspeed

Last edited by LightspeedX; 07-06-2012 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Technical error
LightspeedX is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #23
JEV3
There and back again~
Developer
 
JEV3's Avatar
Default

Industrial Valley 1 --- 5

The music was a little grating as soon as I pulled it open. The level certainly was functional but many of the deaths were cheap. Having dark textures in a dark level made platforming in that large room with the purple liquid about guesswork. In that same room, because of the current in the purple liquid, falling in is as good as death because you can't recover your rings and are unlikely to manage to reach those springs. The one cavern with the pit where I had to jump past pistons and liquid cost me a few lives before I realized it was better just to avoid timing jumps through the pistons altogether. The room that fills with green goop doesn't allow the player enough time to react the first time through. The square room over the pit with the weights was difficult to figure out, at least you could have used a rope to make it a little more clear how they worked. Overall, I would recommend polishing up some of your ideas then implementing them in a way that's fair and clear to the player and interesting.

-------------------------

Sonic Schoolhouse -- 4

I never know how to respond to entries like this. It works exactly the way its supposed to work. It was amusing, and there were no design flaws... except for the fact that there really wasn't any gameplay. I felt more like I was exploring the world of a tot's edutainment game than that I was playing in a level that used that edutainment game as a backdrop or theme. But I think that was what you were planning. I don't know how to rate this yet.

-------------------------

Frozen Hillside 2 --- 9

Solid and almost flawless, this level was fun to play without trying to be clever or gimmicky. I think there were a few ideas in this level I would have loved to see developed and fleshed out a little more, but at the same time I like how the level was mostly simple. I'd say since this is an act 2, there's no reason why you can't do a little more with the interior areas. That's really more a comment from a designer's mindset than from a player's though, it didn't really hamper my enjoyment of the level.

-------------------------

Chemical Facility 2 --- 6

I don't know if I played the first one. Factory levels have been my favorite for quite some time because of all the potential for bringing in creative new gimmicks. I rather enjoyed some of the ones you brought in but some of the gameplay itself felt a little stilted. There were times when I found myself taking advantage of tiny ledges either because I could see no clearer path or because I could not get the intended path to work. One such case was in one of the blue water rooms where I couldn't figure out the trick to using the waterfall to get higher and bought a game-over for my efforts. Another was at the beginning where you can't quite scale that one button without jumping on the tiny pipe things coming out of it. These are small issues, but an intended platforming route should be clear and large enough to be seen as playable space as opposed to decorative space.
A larger issue is that the gimmicks which had such potential were too deadly to be enjoyable. The conveyors were to be avoided rather carefully run through because of their speed. The pink mice looked awesome but were just more dangerous and annoying crawlas. I think they would have added more if instead they dropped purple goop here and there and moved more slowly. Areas where I should be getting used to the gimmick you introduced had pits. One example was the room full of blue liquid. The fact that I was underwater was threat enough, if I fell down the risk could be of drowning before I got back up. The aforementioned example of using the blue waterfall to get higher also counts.
One room had a button with a timer that I had to race to get to the door. I'm convinced that there was some way I was supposed to prolong the timer but not seeing it, I instead spent five minutes or more (including game-overs) trying to time the button with the piston and then abuse the conveyors to reach the doors before they closed. I made it a few times, but since it was not a consistent solution I wound up no-clipping through so I could focus on other challenges.
One other critique is that you have a lot of different types of gimmicks rolled into one place. I would like to see one or two fleshed out in an interesting manner than see five or six. (don't think you really needed the reverse gravity gimmick) This would also make it easier to polish as well. I liked your turrets even if they sometimes seemed like cheap shots. The green mice were interesting, I'd like to see the purple mice used equally imaginatively. The orange liquid pretty cool, the blue liquid was a nice idea even if the areas you used it were frustrating. Visually, your level is consistent and appealing. Keep up the good work, and I hope I'll get the chance to play a polished, more focused version of the level.

-------------------------

Lightless Labyrinth --- 6

For the most part, this seems to be an experiment. Complete darkness seems to be one of the cardinal sins of SRB2 and here is a test to see what works and what does not. The smaller passageways do not work because getting stuck in a dark corner is very problematic. The greatest strength of this level were the larger areas like the one where you jump over a series of floating platforms. The problem is that the majority of the level focused on the smaller passageways. The badniks were annoying, but maybe would have been better off in larger areas. Trying to find my way around in some of the corridors under constant assault by the fire wisps took much longer than it needed.

The boss was my favorite part of the level. The area was large enough to move through and the attacks were every bit as visible as they needed to be. The use of the water and the fire was clever. The knockback on the missiles made it dangerous to recover lost rings. Overall, I wish I had been able to finish the boss instead of glitching through to the finish line. The level preceding the boss is too long to invite another playthrough.

-------------------------

Azure Temple --- 10

I'm not going to have the time to get into a long review. All scores in this post are subject to change, including this one. While I still would like the level to have provided me with a really entertaining set piece before the end as a parting shot just as a cherry on top, I do think the level is both challenging and entertaining. There are no critical issues that drag down the experience. There is extensive replayability. There is even attention to little things like the flickies, or giving the player fifteen lives to start out. The Knuckles path was a whole lot of fun, particularly the climbing segment which felt reminiscent of a scrolling shooter. I still haven't managed to beat the platforming path at the last split, but I've gotten far enough that I believe that the end of the path would have been just around the corner.
__________________
"A man who's a dreamer and never takes leave, who thinks of a world that is just make believe
Will never know passion, will never know pain, who sits by the window will one day see rain..."

~The Greatest Adventure: Ballad of the Hobbit

Last edited by JEV3; 07-14-2012 at 06:10 PM. Reason: Finished scoring
JEV3 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #24
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Okay so I fucked up and got hit by a stray flame after completing the (homage route) but I went over to the nuke room and a door had opened revealing (four things) inside. Is that all there is? Should it have triggered that way or did I find some sort of bug?

Also, I know I'm kinda ignoring all the other entries, but. You know. Sorry!
Fred is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #25
Monster Iestyn
Friendly Neighbour-Hood
Moderator
 
Monster Iestyn's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Also, I know I'm kinda ignoring all the other entries, but. You know. Sorry!
At least try Lightless Labyrinth Zone too - that's pretty much the only other SP entry that stands out there to me at least.

Not sure whether I'll bother to make a vote post for this OLDC yet - might post one later if I feel like doing so. (Probably will do just the SP division again.)
__________________
My page stuffed full of MIDI goodness!
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Robo-Hoodiverse
Timeline of Sonic Robo Blast History!

That's an uppercase i, not a lowercase L, for the record.
Monster Iestyn is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #26
Prime 2.0
Actually a decent lazy bum
Moderator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Okay so I fucked up and got hit by a stray flame after completing the (homage route) but I went over to the nuke room and a door had opened revealing (four things) inside. Is that all there is? Should it have triggered that way or did I find some sort of bug?

Also, I know I'm kinda ignoring all the other entries, but. You know. Sorry!
Yeah, that's all there is. I'm bothered by that a bit too, to be honest...
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.
Prime 2.0 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #27
Shadow Hog
Administrator
 
Shadow Hog's Avatar
Default

I still need to get around to trying the other SP entries at some point (beyond a beta ATZ and the final Schoolhouse entry)... if only to offset the love-it-or-hate-it opinions for LLZ.

Definitely recommend those who haven't seen the boss for LLZ to do so... I can probably look up coordinates to warp to if you never intend to finish the stage proper. Seems like people generally like that one; I think I know where to focus my energies with whatever OLDC entry I do next.
Shadow Hog is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #28
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster Iestyn View Post
At least try Lightless Labyrinth Zone too - that's pretty much the only other SP entry that stands out there to me at least.
Actually I meant I was ignoring all the other entries by only talking about Azure Temple in my posts... Well, whatever, I've written my reviews now, though I'm not sure if they help much in that regard...

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1 by Zipper - 4/10
Eh, this is the kind of stage I could live without. It's fine for the most part, but it's a bit on the big side whilst not having enough content to it, so it comes out feeling rather empty. Then you also have several unfair hazards such as pits you can't detect until you're well on your way to inevitable collision, and unexpected crumbling platforms, both of which immediately steal a life. Further, you have many nonstandard gimmicks, like springs which toss you straight into acid unless you vigorously fight back, and a set of weights that only tilts one way for some reason. On the plus side, I liked how you used a purple color for non-damaging water, so it's nice that we've dropped that taboo, and the bouncy FOF section was pretty satisfying. Scale the stage down a bit and make some of the hazards more obvious and you have a decent stage, even if a bit plain.

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 9/10
Well, it should come as no surprise that a stage Mystic made turned out to be pretty good. Well, where to begin...

First off, the fire-breathing gargoyles. Amazing building blocks that are remarkably simple in design, but are applied in a way that give incredible depth to each room. It's plainly obvious NOW that they're a necessity to making a water level actually FUN, so I hope a refined version appears in SRB2 2.1. The blue Buzz is also an interesting mechanic that contributes significantly to the flavor of the stage, but the truth is after you know where they all are, they immediately become a non-hazard. Except for, you know. Knuckles' route. Still wouldn't mind seeing these in 2.1 either.

ANYWAY, let's start breaking the stage down. Right off the bat the path splits so you get to pick your way to get to the next path split, a practice that has become common in SRB2 2.0 with basically all the new stages implementing it at some point. If you make your moves right, both paths take about 40-50 seconds to clear and reach the common star post, which is a sign that they're balanced in that respect, but I can't help but feel the left path is much harder than the right one, to no greater reward. Don't get me wrong, both paths require a considerable amount of skill and comfort with the controls, even if for wildly opposing reasons. The right path gives you all the room in the world, but requires you to land perfectly on tiny spots. Conversely, the left path is much more constricting in nature, and you're always strugglling not to get crushed, but it basically only requires you to thok in the general direction of safety and you'll be out of harm's way with little to no fuss. The thing is, while the right path kills you for lack of mastery of the controls, the left path kills you for lack of good reaction time -- too late, and you're crushed, too early and you miss your jump and fall in the pit. Oh well, I suppose that there will always be an "optimal" choice in these situations, so I guess there's no point in complaining.

The next room after the path joins is pretty confusing. There's a large door to the left which leads to the next room, but there's also another equally large door on the right which just leads to some item boxes. I assumed the next path switch had to be around here somewhere, but turns out I was looking entirely in the wrong place. There's no way to go but left, the next path split only occurs after this long room which has two routes through it, one high and one low. I like how it harkens back to classic Sonic design in that if you fall off the the top route, you can continue following the bottom path, even so far as being able to backtrack and try the top path again, but the merciless design of the stage means that more often than not, if you fall off the top route you somehow end up gravitating towards the nearest hole anyway, so. Depending on which route you follow, you end up on mutually exclusive paths, though there's exclusive path Knuckles is forced into which can be accessed from either one.

The two standard paths follow the same general mantra. The stage pits you through a series of narrow corridors through which fire is constantly traveling in repeating patterns. Fireballs emerge from the left and right walls simultaneously at a set height and constant rhythm while a wave of fireballs is sent from the far end of the corridor. This is where the biggest difference between paths comes into place, as the left path corridors typically send this wave at a constant height, while the right path corridors have the waves alternate between high and low, meaning you have to be careful when to jump and when to stay put. This may seem much harder on paper, but the fact is that this alternating pattern gives you a lot of breathing room, as there are plenty of spots you can stay safely in while jumping in place, as you plot your next move. The left path, on the other hand, is built in a way that safe zones are scarce and you pretty much need to get through in one push, otherwise your rings are bound to get sprinkled over the edge of conveniently placed ridges that ensure you won't be seeing them again.

This reason alone causes me to prefer the right hand path once again, and this is further backed by the one-off unique room that exists in either of the paths, on the left side right at the start and on the right side towards the middle mark. These large rooms don't follow the same concept as the remaining linear corridors and instead have you traversing an obstacle course in three dimensions much like the room immediately before the path split. I guess this is a matter of choice, but I greatly prefer the room on the right path than the one on the left side. The left side room is this large pit with many rapidly bobbing platforms reminiscent of that one room in AGZ2, while fireballs are being shot from each of the four surrounding walls, never seeming to be in line with any platform you actually need to step on, so this room is easy and pointless. The one on the right side, however, is much more interesting and requires the same quick reflexes as the room before the path split, so it's much more appealing to me. Further, the right hand path also has a unique corridor where a single wave of fire periodically sweeps the entire area and you need to jump into safe alcoves on either side in order to progress. (There's also a hidden secret in this path, but I won't go into details. Suffice to say I burst out laughing when I saw it.)

Anyway, the Knuckles path. Dear God, the Knuckles path. What can I say but GET AWAY FROM ME NO NO NO YOU SON OF A- GOD DAMMIT! Go play it, it's mercilessly merciless.

Regardless of which path you took, you'll always arrive at the same room, where a fairly conspicuous puzzle element sits off to the side, ready for you to ignore. If you're like me and DO ignore it, well, you'll soon regret it. Activating the mechanism opens up a separate puzzle route which is just that, a puzzle route. Like that one thing in DSZ1, get ready to push gargoyles around. These ones spit fire, so there's a certain risk factor involved, not to mention you need to periodically take a break to go refill your lungs, but what it all boils down to is a pathetically easy way to bypass the hardest section of the stage completely.

Okay, it's time. Should your hubris get the better of you and you choose to ignore the sad gargoyle hopelessly breathing into the wall, you'll soon face the only part of the stage I can truly say I hated. The gimmick is simple enough, there are these square chutes on the floor which have updrafts, and you need to jump on them to get altitude, then fly across a pit into the next one before you fall too much and undershoot the chute, but not too fast so you don't overshoot it and don't get enough altitude to reach the next one. To encourage you, all the chutes are surrounded by a thin layer of spikes. Now, this mechanic would be infuriating on its own, but add the fact that the prohibitively low ceiling doesn't allow for much in the way of error, and that water physics slow everything down (both your acceleration AND deceleration) and you'll soon find all your hair in neat little piles on the floor all around you.

Now, to be fair, the first part isn't too hard. You can basically just sail on through, even though there's a few extra chutes you don't really need and are mostly just there to trick you into stopping more than you should, since you can just charge through and get through the whole thing in one fell swoop. Then there's an intermission where you go through another long corridor with fire being shot at you, except this time fire is shot from both the far to the near end as well as from the near to the far end! Yeah! Don't worry, there's a star post -- it's right before this very corridor -- so each time you fail the second and last updraft sequence, you'll have to go through the fire corridor again! And there's also a death pit in there! I'm not even making this up!

That's about it. Both the updraft and the puzzle path bring you to the last room, where in a small alcove the level tempts you with a nuke (Armageddon) design on the floor. The only Armageddon I could find was in the room between the first and second path splits, so I guess that's the one you need to get all the way to the end of the level. I'd recommend taking the right hand path for the reasons I stated above, and go for the puzzle route without thinking twice about it. Though as far as I can tell, the reward is pitiful, but hey, it's a challenge posed in the stage so I consider it canon.

Well, that was a mouthful. Okay, so if you couldn't tell, I loved the stage enough to write god knows how many words about it, but that doesn't mean it's the most perfect thing in the world. So it's time for some summarized complaints.

A) I don't like how you can randomly push some of the gargoyles around. If they're part of a set piece they should stay part of a set piece, it's not like you can move walls or platforms around, so why the gargoyles? Obviously the ones on the puzzle route are exempt from this.

B) Halfway through the right hand path, in the large room full of Buzz which do nothing to mess you up, there's one loner right at the top of the last jump that serves no other purpose than to kill the unaware player the first time he gets there. It's dumb and makes it the air bubble patch there useless because you can't use it until you kill the Buzz, breathing the bubble in the process.

C) It's impossible to tell that there's a gaping pit right in front of you when you first get to the updraft room, especially since nothing like it occurs earlier in the stage. I would suggest having a safety net of sorts in this first part, or arranging it so that the player gets to see the chute and the pit before they can run off into the abyss.

D) Seriously that second updraft part is ridiculous.

E) Why do the flames hurt me when I have an Elemental Shield? I thought that was the whole point of the damn thing?

And that's pretty much all I have to say. Nice comeback.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel - 3/10
There's really not much I can say here because I beta tested this stage rather extensively. But to sum things up, Boinciel ran out of time to finish the stage and some stuff got left on the cutting room floor. It's a delightful concept, but it's really only funny the first time around. It desperately needed more length to make an impact as a solo stage, but it's enough for a certain level pack...

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2 by Blade - 5/10
People have been commenting that this is little more than a rehash of the first act, so I guess it's a good thing I don't really remember it. The deep snow gimmick is interesting but also a bit annoying, and although it works from a functional standpoint, it doesn't feel right because of the gravity fiddling. Apart from that there's really nothing wrong with the stage, but there isn't anything great about it either. It's just average.

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2 by CoatRack - 4/10
no no no you idiot the blue gel is the bouncy one and the orange gel makes you slip around
Apart from that, eh. It has a few genius moments, especially when the gels are introduced, but then instead of making awesome set pieces with these powerful building blocks, you forgo them in favor of stupid antigravity gimmicks and exploiting of water physics, all while you're constantly being assaulted by stupid fucking turrets and those other things that hump your legs. In one particular instance, there was a switch that temporarily opened a door over on the top of the room and you literally could not afford to waste a single tic to get up there or it would close on your face, or worse, crush those who were just barely late. And I'm sitting there wondering how many players are actually able to get through that. I mean, I can see novice players getting through Azure Temple, even if only by constantly abusing temporary invincibility, but this is a massive brick wall that shows a complete lack of awareness on the stage's designer. Shame on you.

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by ShadowHog - 8/10
Okay WOW. At first, I thought you were out of your mind and this was going to be the most painful thing to get through in the entire contest, but boy, was I wrong. There are a few rough edges here and there, as has been mentioned, the second crusher sequence being completely unfair, and having to lure fire ghosts from adjacent hallways was at times excruciating, but there's something to be said about a stage that took me a full 15 minutes to clear and left me incredibly satisfied and happy in the end. In particular, I have to tip my hat to you over the ghastly moving platform, not only did you cleverly overcome one of polyobjects' main limitations, you did it in style and in a fantastically innovative manner. One slight snag, since rings act as important landmarks (and in one occurrence, form arrows that are your only clue to the correct path), if you collect too many of them you may very well end up getting hopelessly lost. This is especially a big problem if you end up backtracking, or die during a netgame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Hog View Post
Definitely recommend those who haven't seen the boss for LLZ to do so... I can probably look up coordinates to warp to if you never intend to finish the stage proper. Seems like people generally like that one; I think I know where to focus my energies with whatever OLDC entry I do next.
Oh yeah, this was great. But it was only the cherry on the top of a very delicious cake.

Last edited by Fred; 07-05-2012 at 08:37 PM. Reason: dammit I knew I forgot something
Fred is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #29
Prime 2.0
Actually a decent lazy bum
Moderator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
A) I don't like how you can randomly push some of the gargoyles around. If they're part of a set piece they should stay part of a set piece, it's not like you can move walls or platforms around, so why the gargoyles? Obviously the ones on the puzzle route are exempt from this.
Because gargoyles can be pushed, for whatever purpose you have in mind. This doesn't change for the trapgoyles, and in fact you have increased utility in doing so, for instance in the 'unique' room on the second path where you can knock off a line of them shooting down a platform before even going on if you're clever, to knock off the trapgoyle shooting at the Armageddon shield before grabbing that, or to get that ring box also in the 'unique' room on the second path. In race/full race, you can move the trapgoyles around as an offensive tactic to mess up other players... and of course, there's always the appeal of just dicking around with something that shoots fire. The moveability of most trapgoyles(the exceptions almost universally being those in wall compartments and diagonally shooting gargoyles because of some glitches that happened otherwise) just makes the gimmick more interesting and unique, IMO.

That said, if nothing except the puzzle gargoyles could be moved, the player would have zero reason to believe that the puzzle gargoyles were moveable, contributing to another problem with the stage you mentioned earlier, which is that it's easy to not notice that the puzzle path split exists at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
D) Why do the flames hurt me when I have an Elemental Shield? I thought that was the whole point of the damn thing?
It's a mystery. :P

In all seriousness though, there's no way for me to put fire underwater; the projectiles use a fire graphic, but they're not technically fire. So I recolored the elemental shield so everyone could pretend that it was just a shield that let you breathe underwater and nothing else, and changed the animation to make it half-speed and reversed for extra measure. Even so, it seems I underestimated how easy it is to write off an unusual shield color as being the result of a colormap, even if you have a color(the purple walls, which are the same color as the shield) to compare it to. I'll have to keep this in mind for the next time I try something like that.
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.

Last edited by Prime 2.0; 07-05-2012 at 07:52 PM.
Prime 2.0 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #30
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
Yeah, that's all there is. I'm bothered by that a bit too, to be honest...
Speaking of, how does the trigger work, anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
That said, if nothing except the puzzle gargoyles could be moved, the player would have zero reason to believe that the puzzle gargoyles were moveable, contributing to another problem with the stage you mentioned earlier, which is that it's easy to not notice that the puzzle path split exists at all.
Nay, I said that it's HARD to not notice the lone gargoyle firing at the wall! The fact that it's all alone and seems to be aimed rather uselessly is enough to warrant investigation on the player's behalf, I think. Adding to that, being on a small enclosed trench immediately gave away that you're supposed to push it, and I don't think being able to push other gargoyles in the level had anything to do with that realization. Too late to make sure now, though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
Even so, it seems I underestimated how easy it is to write off an unusual shield color as being the result of a colormap, even if you have a color(the purple walls, which are the same color as the shield) to compare it to.
What "unusual" shield color? Everything turns blue because of the colormap! I definitely could not tell the sprites had been changed, though I did notice the animation cycle was different, but didn't know what to attribute it to. There's no point in changing the appearance of the shield when you can't tell that that such appearance has changed, and it's much easier to come to the conclusion that "gargoyle fireballs hit through the elemental shield" than "this is a different kind of shield that also allows breathing underwater but doesn't protect against fire".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
In all seriousness though, there's no way for me to put fire underwater; the projectiles use a fire graphic, but they're not technically fire.
Then SRB2 2.1 would benefit from separating "sizzling in water" and "elemental damage". Can you even make electric/water damage objects?

Last edited by Fred; 07-05-2012 at 08:13 PM.
Fred is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #31
742mph
I make Sonic look like me
 
742mph's Avatar
Default

I don't really have much time right now, so I'm going to keep the explanations short and simple.

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1 by Zipper: 4/10
I like the theme and the overall feel of the design, but some of the hazards are just cheap.

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0: 7/10
The visuals are great and the general structure is well-thought out, but the level design is often overly punishing.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel: 6/10
PffftHAHAHAHAHA

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2 by Blade: 7/10
The gimmicks are very imaginative (though the increased-friction snow is a bit overused), but the stage itself is rather linear.

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2 by CoatRack: 6/10
To be honest, this level didn't interest me as much as the first act, and the reverse-gravity gimmick didn't exactly help. And please, no more super-fast conveyor belts. The enemies and exploration value are top-notch, though.

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by ShadowHog: 3/10
Ughhh. The idea of making an entire stage that's just a pitch-black maze with few actual hazards was a terrible one. I got completely lost after three minutes or so because I had collected all of the arrow-shaped ring formations. There's a lot of effort put into it, but it was all for nought the way I see it.
__________________
Quote:
<Evilgasm> the opposite of egoraptor is Toa Tahu
742mph is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #32
Prime 2.0
Actually a decent lazy bum
Moderator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Speaking of, how does the trigger work, anyway?
The switches become solid, pushable, unshootable, but noclipping objects when hit, and change back after a second; the "puzzle complete" triggers are just multi-solid object triggers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Can you even make electric/water damage objects?
Nope. You couldn't even do that back when fire/water/electric damage had separate shields to protect from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
What "unusual" shield color? Everything turns blue because of the colormap!
All of SRB2's normal shield colors are distinct from each other in ATZ's water colormap, and I picked the one I used from several, trying to find one that was also distinct and didn't lose too many of its distinct shades to being moved somewhere unfortunate on the pallete.

...well, I say the shield colors are distinct, but only from each other when all are in the colormap; the attraction shield's icon in the ATZ water colormap is a dead ringer for the elemental shield outside of water. :P
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.

Last edited by Prime 2.0; 07-05-2012 at 08:49 PM.
Prime 2.0 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #33
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
The switches become solid, pushable, but noclipping objects when hit, and change back after a second; the "puzzle complete" triggers are just multi-solid object triggers.
Actually I meant the nuke trigger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
All of SRB2's normal shield colors are distinct from each other in ATZ's water colormap
This is irrelevant, because if anything the player is going to compare the color of any given shield he/she finds with the "out of water" colors he/she is familiar with, not how they would look under the same colormap, which he/she ISN'T familiar with. But this is a moot point since it's the whole point of having distinct sprites for each shield in 2.1.
Fred is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #34
Prime 2.0
Actually a decent lazy bum
Moderator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
Actually I meant the nuke trigger.
There is no separate nuke trigger. The Armageddon shield deals damage to anything in range of it that can take damage, including switches. If you wanted to, you could use a nuke as a solution for any of the switch puzzles.
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.
Prime 2.0 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #35
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
There is no separate nuke trigger. The Armageddon shield deals damage to anything in range of it that can take damage, including switches. If you wanted to, you could use a nuke as a solution for any of the switch puzzles.
I must be missing something here but: I'm talking about the room with a nuke design on the floor, how does it know I used a nuke? Were there switches I didn't notice or something?
Fred is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #36
RedEnchilada
happy, pretty, lovely!
Developer
 
RedEnchilada's Avatar
Default

I remember when I built a nuke trigger as a proof-of-concept for someone else, it involved hiding an enemy inside whatever I wanted the trigger to be and using a No More Enemies linedef executor to register when it was destroyed. One can assume ATZ used a similar mechanic, probably involving those switches instead.
__________________
Quote:
<@toaster> '"sonic robot explosion 2", the hot new sensation for teens looking for a good time, tempts many children away from god each year'
av src
RedEnchilada is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #37
Prime 2.0
Actually a decent lazy bum
Moderator
 
Prime 2.0's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Chaotikal View Post
I must be missing something here but: I'm talking about the room with a nuke design on the floor, how does it know I used a nuke? Were there switches I didn't notice or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEnchilada View Post
I remember when I built a nuke trigger as a proof-of-concept for someone else, it involved hiding an enemy inside whatever I wanted the trigger to be and using a No More Enemies linedef executor to register when it was destroyed. One can assume ATZ used a similar mechanic, probably involving those switches instead.
Spoiler:
__________________
Science tells us that nothing can be proven, only rendered more likely to be true. If we do not question what we already know, how can we know, much less admit, when we're wrong? Such things are vital to progress.

Last edited by Prime 2.0; 07-05-2012 at 09:49 PM.
Prime 2.0 is offline  
Old 07-05-2012   #38
Fred
Retired
 
Fred's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime 2.0 View Post
Spoiler:
Yeah, that explains it. They look like decorative crystals until you examine them closely!
Fred is offline  
Old 07-06-2012   #39
Shadow Hog
Administrator
 
Shadow Hog's Avatar
Default

Okay, so, if you want to see the boss but can't be arsed to finish the stage proper, enter "TELEPORT -x 12672 -y -5760 -z 0", and head across the room with all the big lights to the room behind the starpost. Don't forget the three rings behind the starpost; you'll need them, trust me.

Also check out "TELEPORT -x 13568 -y -2176, -z -640". Another really technically impressive room for you.
Shadow Hog is offline  
Old 07-06-2012   #40
Fawfulfan
The Tortured Planet guy
 
Fawfulfan's Avatar
Default

Little late in my votes, but here you are.

---------------------
SINGLE PLAYER:
---------------------


Industrial Valley Zone Act 1, by Zipper - 4/10
This level reminds me a lot of the 1.09.4 days...and not necessarily in a good way. There's a lot of basic platform jumping and skirting obstacles in this level, which is perfectly fine, but gets boring if that's all you're doing. The theme is intriguing, but I'd recommend using a slightly more consistent texture set.

Azure Temple Zone, by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 4/10
Unfortunately, too cheap to be fun. All the gimmicks were lost on me because they kept killing me. At least throw some more star posts in there somewhere...one excellent place would have been just before the moving platforms with the spiked undersides.

Sonic's Schoolhouse, by Boinciel - 10/10
I honestly can't find the words to describe this. What a scathing indictment of our education system. But so hilarious, and well-constructed to boot. Epic win, my friend.

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2, by Blade
- 9/10
Once again, you have delivered. A monumental piece of work that is quite worthy of following FHZ1. In the interests of reporting everything, I might complain that this level is just as Knuckles-unfriendly as the last one, and that the white fog pits cause substantial frame lag, but these are really pretty trivial issues. I salute you, sir.

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2, by CoatRack - 7/10
This was fun and innovative, just like the original, but there were a few parts that got on my nerves. The upside-down segment really didn't do anything interesting with the reversed gravity. It was basically just an upside-down hallway--no action, plus the camera behaves a little awkwardly. And I wasn't too thrilled with the long conduit of purple slime you had to straddle...the orange and white ones were fine, but the purple one felt annoyingly constrained. Finally, I didn't dig the slime turrets. There's not much point in gluing the player to the floor for a few seconds, other than to annoy him. Otherwise, a fine level that goes nicely with CFZ1.

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by, ShadowHog - 0/10
Please tell me this was a joke. I'm guessing it was, but I must ask just to be sure. On the off-chance it's not, let me give you a serious critique. This level is absolutely horrible, to the point that I could not finish it. It takes about ten seconds before the gimmick gets old, and twenty seconds before you start grinding your teeth. At one point, I fell into a pit that I couldn't see and had to climb out as Knuckles because I had no idea how else to escape. At other points, those enemies with the glaring eyes flew into me from nowhere. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

----------
MATCH:
----------


Green Match Zone, by Root - 1/10
Ugh. It is a terrible design choice to have a death pit beneath a pool of opaque water. Either remove the death pit or make the water translucent or both. Personally, I think there's rarely a good time to use opaque water at all, since it looks very unattractive. But even beyond that, the level is just a wreck. It's way too small and plain, and none of the weapon rings are floating. I'd advise you to get a better handle on the basics before trying again.

Marble Zone, by CoatRack - 9/10
Man, this takes me back to the time when I was just starting out, and I created a SP Marble Zone. This blows what I did right out of the water. I adore the attention to detail and the intimate loyalty to the original. And besides that, the gameplay is superb as well. The one thing I might change is the excessive use of Pumas...I know the real Marble Zone had jumping flames, but there are too many here.

--------------------------
CAPTURE THE FLAG:
--------------------------


Glades of Serenity, by Scizor300 - 5/10
Nothing amazing, but not terrible by any means. I'd try to make the layout a little less confusing if I were you, though.

Fungus Forest, by RedEnchilada - 4/10
Ditto. A pretty average piece of work with solid construction but a bit of a befuddling path structure. A little more so in this case, I'd say.
__________________
Just another indie game developer...check out my website, Chapman Games!

Last edited by Fawfulfan; 07-06-2012 at 09:11 PM.
Fawfulfan is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.