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Old 05-28-2007   #1
Rob
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Default On "Don't download it".

Recently, a new statement has been spreading around the forums. This little statement has done nothing to contribute to the forums. "Don't download it if you don't like it", along with similar "It's not like you have to download it." Both mean nearly the exact same thing, and are extremely flawed. When constructive criticism is made on a wad, and people don't like it, this is the first cry.

Neither statement benefits anyone. If obeyed, it would not benefit the creator of the wad, because the creator can not receive the necessary comments needed to know how to expand on his or her ability. The creator would never know how to improve. He/she'd be stuck creating terrible things without the necessary knowledge to advance in his/her preferred field of SRB2 editing. He/she would keep releasing garbage and never even know it.

This statement serves to annoy the experienced/old user. The experienced user knows how and what criticism should be given. Such criticism is often thought of as "flaming", and as a result, the statement was created. This mentality annoys, because they know how to help the newcomer improve on his/her creations, or can advise that what they are doing is in itself flawed and needs to be scrapped. With this statement, constructive criticism is ignored, and the creator does not improve. This annoys the experienced user, because there is always potential in the creator, whether or not his/her creation had any value.

It also makes the person who makes the statement look foolish. Because when people say this, it shows they do not know what criticism is and why it's necessary. People who use this often think that saying something positive is required. They think that negative comments are flames. None of those thought processes are true. Experienced people see this, and then view the person who made the statement as foolish.

So, in conclusion, "Don't download it" and the like are detrimental to the good of the SRB2 community and should be discontinued. This will allow for people to gain the comments needed to improve on themselves and make good products that people can enjoy.
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Old 05-28-2007   #2
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I feel guilty because I've said "Don't download it if you don't like it" in the past. And I kinda feel like I started the fad of saying it, although I probably didn't.
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Old 05-28-2007   #3
Sonow Hakura
 
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Actually I think that was me. I still go with that comment but that is just my opinion.
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Old 05-28-2007   #4
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I think everyone said that except DW and FoxBlitzz(...>_>), if he did he wouldn't make a topic that was even stickied.
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Old 05-28-2007   #5
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Really guys, don't encourage people to make shit. It hurts the overall quality of SRB2 and the community. :/
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Old 05-28-2007   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicfreak94
I think everyone said that except DW...
Actually, I agreed wholeheartedly. I posted this before noticing this sticky.
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Old 05-28-2007   #7
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Hell...It's in Sonows Signature...

Altough I do agree 100%...it helps noone
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Old 05-28-2007   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicfreak94
I think everyone said that except DW
Why am I included under "everyone"? I'm a very critical person too, and you have mistakingly and unknowingly included me under "everyone". I share the same opinion as DW does, you know. >_>
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Old 05-29-2007   #9
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Actually, now that I think about it, I think the whole group of people that have been here over a year probably think the same way.

I believe he's just saying that very few people spoke up about it, DW being the most obvious.
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Old 05-29-2007   #10
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To be honest, I'm split. I highly doubt this will have much if any effect-half the people DW is referencing don't read the topics that basically say "Read or die" (the rules). On the other hand, the problem isn't solving itself.

On the subject of anyone saying it...it's bad logic. You tell people they don't have to download it if they don't like it, but how will they know if they like something without a download. Further more, how can you expect people to not comment if they download a creation? Anyone who says "Don't download if you don't like it" and seriously means and believes it is either having a dumb moment, or as is more likely, is seriously vacant upstairs.
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Old 06-01-2007   #11
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Maybe they should start saying "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." =P

Seriously though, as so totally right as DW is, I doubt anyone would listen. Hell, I don't care if people say they don't like my mod, at least it tells me they at least payed attention to it.

Maybe this should be stickied on all the releases forums?
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Old 06-03-2007   #12
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Rent it first, then,bring on the critics. After that, toss it in the trash.
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Old 06-04-2007   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicfreak94
I think everyone said that except DW and FoxBlitzz(...>_>), if he did he wouldn't make a topic that was even stickied.
Never said it.
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Old 06-04-2007   #14
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Its not the critism that annoys people. Its because some of the people always let theirselfs look like complete jerks. Most of the times when those people use critism, they're nearly saying: Make good wads, or GTFO of this community. Technically they're not flaming.

I really appreciate critism, but make it sound like you have a bit respect for the time people put in their work, even if its just a S_SKIN change or a timer SOC. I know its hard for some people here to act nice, but you'll be making the creators of wad understand the point of your critism if you show some respect.
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Old 06-04-2007   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super mystic sonic
I really appreciate critism, but make it sound like you have a bit respect for the time people put in their work, even if its just a S_SKIN change or a timer SOC. I know its hard for some people here to act nice, but you'll be making the creators of wad understand the point of your critism if you show some respect.
I fail to see how opening up a wad or SOC, changing a few lines and saving it, then uploading it is called putting time into their work.

Putting time into their work is when they spend hours upon hours perfecting it, making sure that it's as good as they can make it.
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Old 06-04-2007   #16
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I've made some wads that need improvement. Sometimes I'm unaware of how to fix errors or the errors being noticed. I wish I was a better wadder.
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Old 06-04-2007   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super mystic sonic
Its not the critism that annoys people. Its because some of the people always let theirselfs look like complete jerks. Most of the times when those people use critism, they're nearly saying: Make good wads, or GTFO of this community. Technically they're not flaming.

I really appreciate critism, but make it sound like you have a bit respect for the time people put in their work, even if its just a S_SKIN change or a timer SOC. I know its hard for some people here to act nice, but you'll be making the creators of wad understand the point of your critism if you show some respect.
No, you shouldn't have to be overly nice to people. And I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to be supportive of something when I am not. Work such as an S_SKIN change or a Timer SOC does not deserve respect. The designer deserves to be told why it's a bad thing and should be discontinued. Also, nowhere did anyone say anything close to "Make good wads, or GTFO." Don't start making unjust accusations. Presentation does not need to be nice. It needs to be direct. And if you don't like it, then that's really just too damn bad.
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Old 06-05-2007   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Warrior
No, you shouldn't have to be overly nice to people. And I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to be supportive of something when I am not. Work such as an S_SKIN change or a Timer SOC does not deserve respect. The designer deserves to be told why it's a bad thing and should be discontinued. Also, nowhere did anyone say anything close to "Make good wads, or GTFO." Don't start making unjust accusations. Presentation does not need to be nice. It needs to be direct. And if you don't like it, then that's really just too damn bad.
You don't get the point. I said you could give people critism without acting like a jerk. Even if you never ment to act like one, it can make you seem like one. When a S_SKIN or recolor is made, the answer is most of the times: Not more of this bull-crap...recolors/S_SKIN changes suck. No creativity, no enthiousasm, and no effort. Seriously, guys, can't anyone of you start making a good wad thats a not a recolor, timer SOC, or a plain S_SKIN change?

You're making quite a point in that kinda critism, and everything is right about it, but you're forgetting that you're not talking sense into the creator most of the times. You're making yourself look like a jerk, and most of the people ignore you like that. To get nice results, you got to be nice. Probably you're thinking that would make people think they've did a good job on their crap, but if you get the mix between adding constructive critism and making yourself look friendly just right, they'll understand.
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Old 06-05-2007   #19
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Ah, but the direct way is the best way. See, being nice requires some level of praise. Basically, there's no way to say "This sucks for X, Y, and Z" nicely unless you say "But this is a good first try" or something. Because recolors and whatnot are most certainly not good first tries. Basically, if people can't handle direct criticism, they shouldn't be posting their stuff.
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Old 06-05-2007   #20
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I feel for the way you handle critisism should be by:

1. If it is a good wad that has some bugs/errors in it, add constructive critizism on fixing the errors, because (in some cases) the wad has potential to be a fun addon to SRB2 gameplay.

2. If the wad is a recolor/or in some cases, in what I call theft-color, harshly critisize/chastize the creator, and the wad itself for being of poor quality, and not having any effort put into the development of the wad.

If people have good effort, use constructive critisizm. If people make pieces of complete crap, chastize them and their wads. That's the way I see it.
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