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Old 02-14-2011   #8
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Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
Why is this not mentioned in the rules topic? Also, I assume the score dropping will persist, only that the creators can only vote for all or no maps now. Also, does that mean that if you didn't play one maps of one category in a netgame, you can't vote on the other maps of that category at all? That seems kinda strange to me. At least, in that case, people should be allowed to evaluate the map in question offline.
It's not mentioned in the rules topic; it's mentioned in the new voting topic text because I figured it was more important to mention it there, since our OLDC entry rules topic is long enough as it is. I also rewrote the voting topic text, if you guys want, here you go:

Originally Posted by New OLDC Voting Topic Text
Contest voting topic generic draft to account for the changes:

Welcome to the {date} SRB2 Official Level Design Contest voting topic! In this contest we have {#} single player, {#} match, {#} capture the flag, and {#} circuit entries.

To vote, play a few games of each stage in a division in the intended gametype for judging, and give each map in the division a vote from 0 to 10, no decimals and with 5 as average. You can not vote on your own map, but if you vote on the rest of the stages in a division the lowest score on your map for that division will be dropped. For votes to count, the voter must vote on every map in a division (excluding their own entry if they have one). Votes where the voter obviously did not play the level in its intended gametype, or where the voter did not play the multiplayer maps with other real players will be discarded. Please be as unbiased as possible for the author or the look of the map. It's all about how good the map plays, nothing else. For reference, the scale is as follows:

10 - Epic
9 - Awesome
8 - Great
7 - Good
6 - Decent
5 - Average
4 - Mediocre
3 - Bad
2 - Awful
1 - Horrendous
0 - Unplayable

Although it's not required for votes to count, it's very helpful to make comments about what you liked and didn't like about the map, so the author can improve his skill for future attempts. If your votes are dramatically different from the rest and you don't describe why, you may be asked to justify your reasoning.

Judging will end {date} at 7 PM local time in the eastern time zone of the United States. Like the entry deadline, this counts the United States's daylight savings time between March and November. Votes submitted after this time by the forum timestamp will NOT be counted in the average, so if you want to be counted, don't vote at the last minute. After the deadline, the scores will be then averaged, and the person with the highest score in each division is the winner.

{Contest map listing and links to the files}

As a final reminder, please make sure to play the levels in the intended gametype, and above all, have fun judging!
Again, the main reason for this change is because we've had a long history of people voting extremely high or extremely low on a single map and skewing the results. I really don't appreciate how some newbie with no understanding of our voting system can come in, vote a 9 or 10 on one or two maps, and then skew the results immensely because he only voted on a few of them. Any map he didn't vote on will generally lose because the generous voter wasn't voting on their map. This has been irking me for years and while I definitely agree it sucks in some situations (I immediately think of the times where we had over 20 match stages), it should help in the long run produce more fair results.

Also, as a final reminder, this is only for getting the results to count for the purposes of the final score of the contest. This is NOT saying you aren't allowed to give a score for what you did get to play to help the authors make better work next time. It only says that your score won't count in the average at the end of the contest.

Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
As I said in the other topic, I still think imposing a strict deadline does more harm than good. A more logical rule would be that once anyone (staff or not) makes a tally, voting is over (of course, only after the official deadline). That way, there would be no confusion over which votes count and which don't and we would still include any votes that might be late.
We just had a perfect example of why there should be a strict voting deadline. If we had a strict voting deadline in the last contest it would have been unquestionable who won and we wouldn't have needed to wait a month and a half for results. Anyone could have done the math the minute the voting was over and calculated the results. If you want your vote to count, you have TWO FULL WEEKS now to get it in. I really don't see a reason why anyone would need to worry about getting their votes in late.

There's also an obvious problem with your plan. If someone votes while people are doing mathematics, does it count? This makes it unquestionable what the accurate and correct results are. This isn't to say people couldn't give reviews and feedback after the deadline, it simply wouldn't count for the purposes of determining the winner of the contest.

Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher
Look at how many MP votes came too late and weren't counted. If it wasn't for that, we'd have a decent number of votes for all gametypes. Having a serious deadline will motivate nobody, if anything it will discourage people who are beyond the deadline to even play.
This is better than having people voting 3 weeks after the deadline with the written explicit purpose of making me win the match division. That should never, ever happen, and I really don't like the idea of someone noticing a gap in the rules and exploiting it to affect the results. If they want to vote, they should do it in the voting period, not look at the math after the contest voting is over, notice the map they wanted to win didn't win, and quickly throw in their own votes to fix it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Mystery
Once concern has occured to me about rule #5 though: if someone declines to vote on one map for some reason related to the map itself (ie, couldn't complete a lap on a circuit, ect.), do their votes for the division still get excluded anyway?
They would. They will need to come up with some kind of numerical opinion on their experience. Did they enjoy it despite being unable to complete it? What is a completely miserable experience that they want to forget? Surely they have an opinion despite being unable to finish, and that opinion is perfectly valid.

Originally Posted by Ezer.Arch
My point: an OLDC division will have judging only if there are at least 2 valid maps submitted. If there's no enough maps for said division, the submitter must wait for next OLDC.
The problem is that while the OLDC is a contest, it is MORE a method of getting feedback on your creative work. I would rather an entry auto-win and get feedback now than have to wait another two months for the author to get criticism.

Originally Posted by Ezer.Arch
This means who doesn't live in USA and other DST-regions in North hemisphere must now vote 1 hour earlier. The problem was minimized but potentially persists, though.

What is the possibility of using UTC (official world's time)?
The thing is, this actually ISN'T a functional change, it's just finally worded correctly. It USED to just say EST, and that has been wrong the entire time the contest has been running. As an aid I did actually list the difference from UTC for each deadline date involved, which should help a lot.

The reason I'd like to keep DST in there is because it would confuse LESS people to have it there, since a majority of our users are based in the United States. However, I do understand the issue and wanted to make it clear for those of you not in the United States exactly what the deadline times are so there isn't any confusion in the future, as we HAVE had a user lose their entry in the past due to that hour-long gap and have to wait 2 months.
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