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RomioTheBadass said:
It's has to be open minded and listen to feedback from everyone if it were to appeal to bigger audience, offer SRB2 to any outsider and he will quickly notice how slippery the controls are and how hard to control the game is.
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The thing is, SRB2 isn't slippery and hard to control. Look at any experienced player playing the game and it's quite obvious the controls are great. The actual problem is that the controls are not intuitive.

Players new to SRB2 will look at the game and (reasonably) expect that the game controls and acts like modern Sonic. It doesn't. Not only does it not act like modern Sonic's controls, we do allow the player to make it badly fake modern Sonic's controls with analog, and when they do they find it hysterically slippery because while analog initially appears to emulate modern Sonic's controls but it doesn't at all.

This is the reason for introducing auto-brake, directionchar, and accepting that we need to create a tutorial. It's not that our game controls badly; it's that we do a terrible job of explaining to players how to play our game. They then assume that it controls a way that it doesn't, and then they have a terrible experience playing because of that.
 
How about a Better Boss Camera? I felt like the Boss Camera sucked. You can't even see well the Bosses and some are hard to predict the moves, like Black Eggman and Metal Sonic but others aren't, such as Eggscalibur and Egg Mobile/Egg-o-Matic, for example. There should be a special camera in Boss Arenas to see where the Boss is, just like SA1(DX)/SA2(B) and Jon Burton's unofficial Director's Cut version of Sonic 3D Blast, which is personally, the best way to play that game nowadays. (sorry saturn/pc version)
 
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uh if you are on about fixed camera angles.... I dont agree, it'll be more difficult to move around and get a hit
 
Elyos03 said:
How about a Better Boss Camera? I felt like the Boss Camera sucked. You can't even see well the Bosses and some are hard to predict the moves, like Black Eggman and Metal Sonic but others aren't, such as Eggscalibur and Egg Mobile/Egg-o-Matic, for example. There should be a special camera in Boss Arenas to see where the Boss is, just like SA1(DX)/SA2(B) and Jon Burton's unofficial Director's Cut version of Sonic 3D Blast, which is personally, the best way to play that game nowadays. (sorry saturn/pc version)
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So, this is actually another quirk of our bad teaching. Tracking the boss is actually quite important as a mechanic in this game, but we introduce it totally wrong. We have a first boss with a dash mechanic for crying out loud. Players who can't even handle the controls well enough to track the boss certainly are going to have a tough time when the boss is charging around.

We are planning to fix this by introducing significant boss movement gradually instead of just assuming the player can control the camera flawlessly from the beginning. Again, this is part of our attempt to introduce the game better to new players.
 
Maybe give players the ability to focus their camera on the first boss so when he’s dashing around the camera follows him so you don’t lose sight of him?

Personally, the only bosses that bother me are the DSZ3/CEZ3 bosses for their own reasons.

DSZ3 I don’t know how to distinguish the clones other than trial an error in hitting them and also noticing that they won’t shoot until the real Eggman appears; but hey, at least the arena doesn’t flood anymore.

With CEZ3 I learned through a panic timed jump that Sonic can jump high enough to make it over the spikeballs. Before, I would simply try my best to follow the rhythm of the spike balls’ motion. I didn’t know he could jump over them because the hitboxes on the spikeballs are a bit hard to understand at least in my opinion. I swear everytime Sonic jumps over them those spikes are touching him.

And while I’m at it I’ll add that Metal Sonic’s energy balls can be hard to dodge at times because you never know how many he’s going to throw. Is he going to throw a row of five shots? Or will he shoot the three big spheres that require precise timing and execution to avoid.

Overall the Metal Sonic battle could really use some adjustments in terms of balance, but then again I figured since it’s that last thing keeping you from the final boss then perhaps it doesn’t need much balance. I did however experience a bug in a netgame where he disappeared all of a sudden. I had no WADs added. I was Supersonic during the battle if that means anything. There’s also the possibility that he’ll stay suspended in mid-air after firing his energy blasts and the only way he’ll come down is if you touch him which causes you to lose rings.
 
ThunderFlame said:
Maybe give players the ability to focus their camera on the first boss so when he’s dashing around the camera follows him so you don’t lose sight of him?
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Wouldn't that interfer directly with the level design ?, Camera focusing on Boss and ignoring the level, this could lead to situations where players can't see where they're going and fall into pits and hazards and such.

I suggest giving each boss level it's own unique camera setup depending on the situation (If they were to change it that is .... ).
 
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I'll throw my two cents in that the player shouldn't have to have such obstacles in their way if they're so obstructive that, even with the camera pulled back far enough, this would be allowed to happen.

The way most games pull off a boss camera is that it focuses on the boss first and foremost but it zooms in and out dynamically to get around terrain, to me this seems significantly harder to implement with what we currently have but even then, most games don't put major obstructions in a boss arena anyway, as it gets to be too difficult to balance visibility on the major enemy that can sometimes attack you whereever you are in the arena and still maintain a fun experience. Thus, people tend to design the boss's abilities and arena's terrain around the camera and its limitations. While this can be seen as limiting, I think it's important to remember these factors so that people don't become overly frustrated with your boss.
 
Is quoting posts and previews not working properly for anybody else?

ThunderFlame said:
And while I’m at it I’ll add that Metal Sonic’s energy balls can be hard to dodge at times because you never know how many he’s going to throw.
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I might be wrong about this, but doesn't it follow a set order? Like, the first time MS does the attack, it's the row of five energy balls. The second time, it's the three giant balls one after another. The third time, it's the row again, etc.
 
The way Metal Sonic shoots actually depends on his health points:

* >= 8 : shoot once
* 7 - 5: spread shot
* 4: shoot 3 times
* below 4: shoot like a machine gun? (at this point he'll be in his pinch phase, so this one never gets used, whatever it's actually supposed to do)
 
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Monster Iestyn said:
The way Metal Sonic shoots actually depends on his health points:

* >= 8 : shoot once
* 7 - 5: spread shot
* 4: shoot 3 times
* below 4: shoot like a machine gun? (at this point he'll be in his pinch phase, so this one never gets used, whatever it's actually supposed to do)
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Oh shit, unused functions!?
Is there any footage of this in action? (I'm a bit of a TCRF addict)
 
GreenKnight9000 said:
Oh shit, unused functions!?
Is there any footage of this in action? (I'm a bit of a TCRF addict)
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Here's a script that disables Metal's pinch phase, which makes him use the fourth energy orb attack instead when he's at low health. His charge aura is broken when he uses it, though.
 
Monster Iestyn said:
The way Metal Sonic shoots actually depends on his health points:

* >= 8 : shoot once
* 7 - 5: spread shot
* 4: shoot 3 times
* below 4: shoot like a machine gun? (at this point he'll be in his pinch phase, so this one never gets used, whatever it's actually supposed to do)
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I kind of want to see this.
 
A Whole Lot of Random Ideas!

I have several big ideas to make SRB2 better. This is kind of a big one, but anyways, here it goes:

  1. One thing this game lacks is a true story. The one we have is old and extremely outdated, so I edited the story shown on the website a little bit:
    After Eggman was defeated back in the first game, he decides to take more time to reconsider his strategy, hiding away in an underground base for three months. All Eggman really had to show for this delay was a reduced robot army and a special battleship he built called the ‘Eggship’. He didn’t stand a chance against Sonic and his friends. Eggman’s space-radar bleeped as the Black Rock came within its range. Eggman thought nothing of it at first, until he realised that he had a new battlestation! From there he could attack the world, and launch robot armies without the fear of anyone retaliating against such a huge weapon. And with the Chaos Emeralds, the world would be begging before his knees to end the suffering and let him rule the planet. It was a perfect plan!

    Eggman decided to quickly increase the amount of robots he was producing. World domination was within his grasp at last! He launched his battleship a week later, full of robots to take temporary control of zones until he’d finished putting the final touches to his work on the Black Rock. They were also instructed to return any Chaos Emeralds they might find.

    His first target: Greenflower City.

    Sonic was enjoying his long overdue vacation. Without Eggman around, he and everyone else could relax whenever they wanted. Little did he know that today was going to be the end of it. Hearing Tails’ voice in the distance, Sonic rolled his eyes. Up in the clouds, something caught his eye. It was probably a stray beach ball, thrown out into the sea. No doubt Tails wanted him to recover it. Tails arrived, and told him that there were robots attacking the surrounding zones. Before Tails could finish, the duo was approached by two small robots. They were simple Crawla robots, destroyed with minimal effort. Sonic looked up at the sky and to his horror, saw an enormous battleship, with its guns pointing at the Greenflower City. He had been tricked into a diversion! Without wasting time, Sonic rushed up to the Eggship, even though there was nothing he could really do.

    But it was too late. In a blinding flash, the Greenflower City was a pile of ash and rubble. Nothing was left standing of the once-beautiful resort. Laughing at Sonic, Eggman revealed his plan to control the Black Rock and turn it into an unstoppable force of destruction. Then he flew off, leaving Sonic standing dead in his tracks.

    However, unlike last time, he would not be alone in the fight. Tails was willing to help, and Knuckles had also offered his assistance, realising that the Master Emerald would also be in danger.
    I added a few small parts, and edited others so they made more sense. One change I made was changing the name of Eggman's battleship, which was simply named "Doomship" to "Eggship" to make it align with the concept zone, Grand Eggship Zone (I'll be going into that a bit further into this). If you're still wondering about Greenflower City, I'll be getting to that, too.

  2. The game also lacks an actual ending. Right now, when you complete the game, it skips right to the credits with no cutscene whatsoever. And after the credits are done, there's a black screen showing you how many emeralds you had, along with "Try Again" if you didn't get all of them, the things you unlocked, and stuff like that. None of it's really interesting, though. I think there should be good and bad ending cutscenes, kind of like Sonic CD. This is what I thought of:

    Good Ending (All Emeralds): Your character approaches the ruins of Greenflower City. Realizing that the Chaos Emeralds may be able to restore the city, they bring them out. The Chaos Emeralds start glowing, and suddenly, Greenflower City returns to normal! The trio celebrates their victory and returns to their vacation. Until next time...

    Bad Ending (0-6 Emeralds): Your character approaches the ruins of Greenflower City. The remaining Chaos Emeralds are still in the hands of Dr. Eggman, and though he probably won't attack again for a while, there's nothing that can be done to restore the city. Angry at themself for not getting enough Chaos Emeralds, they start running back into the wilderness, where Eggman's robots still remain.

    If you're still wondering about Greenflower City, I'll be getting to that in my next idea, don't worry.

  3. In the finished game, these are my thoughts for the final level lineup:

    ~Main Levels (Does Secret, Special, Super, or Hyper Levels)~​
    Greenflower Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3)
    Techno Hill Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3)
    Deep Sea Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3; Secret exit in Act 1 allows for access to Pipe Towers Zone; Otherwise, go to Castle Eggman Zone)
    Castle Eggman Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3)
    Arid Canyon Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3)
    Red Volcano Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3; Hidden passage in Act 2 allows for access to Blue Mountain Zone; Otherwise, go to Egg Rock Zone)
    Egg Rock Zone (Acts 1, 2, 3)
    Dark City Zone (Acts 1, 2)
    Grand Eggship Zone (Final Boss; Upon completing with all Chaos Emeralds, Sweet Tooth and Greenflower City are unlocked)
    ~Secret or Special Levels (Does not include Super or Hyper Levels)~​
    Pipe Towers Zone (One-Act Level; Upon finishing, go to Castle Eggman Zone)
    Blue Mountain Zone (One-Act Level; Upon finishing, go to Egg Rock Zone)
    Greenflower City Zone (Hangout Level; Unlocked after beating game with all emeralds with any character)
    ~Super Levels (Accessible from save file's Level Select after beating game with all Chaos Emeralds)~​
    Sweet Tooth Zone (Super Level 1)
    Super Level 2
    Super Level 3
    Aerial Garden Zone (Hyper Level 1)
    Azure Temple Zone (Hyper Level 2)
    Hyper Level 3
    ~(Insert regular unlockable levels to be added in the future here)~​
    With this level line up, SRB2's amount of levels will jump up to (at least) 33. You're probably wondering about some of these changes, so I'll explain them. Pipe Towers will become a secret level that can be accessed by finding a Warp Pipe hidden in Deep Sea Zone Act 1. Blue Mountain, a concept level originally teased in 2.0 and meant to be a second act to Red Volcano, will become another secret level that can be accessed by finding a secret passage in Red Volcano Act 2. Egg Rock's boss will be Metal Sonic (and will include the race). Two acts of Dark City Zone, currently a concept level, will be added, and upon completion, a battle with Brak Eggman on Grand Eggship, yet another current concept level.

    When beating the game with all Chaos Emeralds, Greenflower City will be unlocked. Greenflower City would be a large, eco-friendly-looking city inhabited by animals with lots of things to do and lots of emblems to collect (in a similar fashion to Super Mario Odyssey), and could serve as a hangout level for servers, as there is no goal, and you can leave anywhere, anytime.

    Also, if you're wondering what the heck Sweet Tooth Zone is, it's going to be the first Super Level, according to the SRB2 Wiki.

  4. Some of the MIDIs in this game really need some updating. I said this in an earlier post on this thread, but I guess this is the right time to say it again. The Techno Hill Zone Act 1 MIDI is still at the same pitch as Act 2, and the Credits theme is completely different. About the first MIDI I brought up, I kinda, uh, downloaded the free trial of a MIDI pitch-changing program that wouldn't let me download the file unless I got the full version, and I kinda stole the MIDI file for THZ1 at the correct pitch out of a lingering temporary folder. Anyways, here it is, I guess. Also, I believe that the toggles for MIDI and digital music should be one switchable option, because it's a bit weird the other way.

  5. I've thought of some helpful changes to make certain aspects about online servers a bit easier to handle. First off, I think that by default, the set room when searching for servers should be All, just so people don't have to always go change the room when searching for a good server to join. Also, I believe that server files for different servers should be put into their own folders (separated by IP), and when leaving a server, there should be an option to delete the folder containing the server files so it doesn't waste space and so you don't have to manually delete it yourself (obviously, this wouldn't apply to the owner of the server). Of course, you'd have to restart the game to remove the files from the game itself.

  6. I think that when Tails flies, you should only have to hold a button down so you won't have to mash it repeatedly (as demonstrated by this Lua script. I just think that'll make things easier. Maybe it would work as a toggleable option, though.
That's all I can think of for now. I hope you like my ideas!
 
  1. I don't understand what you're doing here? That just seems like the intro that's already there except a bit more verbose. What makes it a "true story" when compared to what's already there?
  2. It's not like the lack of an ending is intended, it's just because the game isn't finished yet and I imagine they want to get the actual levels done first. I do like your idea for the good ending though, it's a nice throwback to Sonic 1.
  3. why is eggrock placed before dark city

    I don't understand the point of this either. The plan they're following already lands them at 33 maps (without counting stuff like ERCZ and secrets like Pipe Towers), so...
I don't agree at all with changing Tails' flight, even as an option. The way it works right now has a lot more going on than just "mash jump to fly", and all of that would have to be changed to preserve balance. Wasted effort when, in my opinion, flight works perfectly as it is now.
 
Dare I say it, I actually prefer mashing over holding because it makes controlling the flight easier in my experience. It’s not that bad and you really don’t need to mash. You can wait about a half second between presses.
 
At least there are several good ideas, like an explorable Greenflower City. Without even needing, SRB2 definitely deserves such a rewarding unlockable open world map besides an abusive power to ease your way when all the Chaos Emeralds are obtained. Besides, SRB2 is gonna have 2 decades of existance so i guess something big might be coming. (I know, most of you already know this including myself, but i'm not sure if some people didn't know about the fact that the Fan-Game is months older than SA1, which obviously was released barely 1 year before the international release, alongside with the Dreamcast.)

Also, Happy Early 4th Birthday 2.1, i guess.
 
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I knew there would be flaws with me ideas. Maybe I should've just kept Greenflower City and a few other smaller things. Well, thanks for the quick feedback!
 
Wumbo said:
I knew there would be flaws with me ideas. Maybe I should've just kept Greenflower City and a few other smaller things. Well, thanks for the quick feedback!
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It's still pretty awesome!
Would the ending sequence be similar to that of Sonic 1? (where Sonic/Tails/Knuckles would run through the zone to an area, then depending on if you've got the Emeralds or not (little emerald animation + reaction) Sonic/Tails/Knuckles will do the standard freeze-pose to end the game)
 
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